Munition ID from Shrapnel?

[Ammersee]

This is a piece of shrapnel that ended up in my grandfathers hand in Italy in 1944. Ouch! I've had it since 1965 when my grandfather gave me all of his military items. I've often wondered what munition is came from, and as you can see, a portion of the outside as well as the inside is present.

The outside shows it has been roughly turned in a lathe, and no attempt was made to put on a good finish. The steel it is made from looks extremely brittle, with areas that look almost crystalized.

It has two distinct bands, and a tiny fragment of what is left of a "step" at the very bottom edge of the fragment.(first photo) There is a definite radius to the outside, and if this radius has not been distorted by the explosion, I would say the unexploded object was 12 inches, or about 30cm across.

It is hard to tell from the pic, but the backside has a smooth area that I believe is the original inside surface. The thickness from this smooth surface to the outside surface with the ridges is 15mm, or a bit over 1/2 inch.

It may be asking too much, but can anyone ID the device that was the source of this nasty scrap of steel? Thanks, Ammersee

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[Ammersee]

Last two pics...

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[François B.]

88?

Maybe...

[Simon O.]

Within those ridges would have run the copper driving band of the shell from the looks of it.

If the diameter really is around 300mm then that's real big calibre artillery. Any idea roughly where he was when he picked it up? Anzio by any chance?

[dogtagman]

it is for sure not from a 88. a driving band groove looks very different.

It looks more like a piece of a mortar shell.

[Jean-Loup]

I think your estimation of size 30cm is surely wrong. Also, your grandfather probably would not have forgotten if he was hit by schrapnel from such a large shell.

It is possible to identify the munition. As an example, for years I wondered what the shell splinter posted on the right was from. One day when randomly browsing this forum, I recognised my schrapnel as being from an 88mm anti aircraft round (left image)! You can surely do the same with your schrapnel.

[Jean-Loup]

You are very lucky, because as Simon said, your shell fragment seems to be the part where the driving band attaches to. The size of he driving band is quite caracteristic of the different types of shells. The problem is that one limit is visible, but the other is not, so it is hard to guess what the real length of the driving band was. You will have to post a picture showing the exact mesurements of your piece of schrapnel before anything can be said.

To me though, at first glance, I would say your piece of schrapnel comes from a shell of approximetaly 155mm, or maybe much more.
See below the picture showing what I think is pieces of driving band from 155mm shells (if they are not from a 155mm; they are from something very close, for comparison, I showed a piece of 75mm driving band). The grooves on the internal part of the 155mm driving band are very similar, but not identical (they depend on country, and manufacturer), to the grooves on your piece of schrapnel.

[Jean-Loup]

But since the exact size of the driving band thickness is not visible on your piece of schrapnel, it is possible that it is from a much larger shell, as illustrated by the picture below. I posted the reverse side of a driving band from some huge shell probably fired by the navy. The grooves also vaguely resemble the grooves on your shell fragment, if you imagine several of the groves on yours are missing.
So the conclusion for me is that your grandfather was hit by a piece of a shell of caliber at least 155mm. The definit anwsere will be very hard to find because of all the variations in liner band grooves depending on the nationality and maker of the shell. Maybe one day you will be lucky and get the exact answere. In the meantime, more precise mesurements of your fragment are necessary. The thickness of the fragment can also give good info.
Remember there is also approximately a 15% probability that your grandfather was hit by friendly fire.

[Ammersee]

Within those ridges would have run the copper driving band of the shell from the looks of it.

If the diameter really is around 300mm then that's real big calibre artillery. Any idea roughly where he was when he picked it up? Anzio by any chance?

I may be way off on the dia. as this piece of metal is deformed from the explosion and I doubt the radius I see is the original.

He was not at Anzio.(That I know about) This came from the battle of Naples-Foggia.
Ammersee

[Ammersee]

But since the exact size of the driving band thickness is not visible on your piece of schrapnel, it is possible that it is from a much larger shell, as illustrated by the picture below. I posted the reverse side of a driving band from some huge shell probably fired by the navy. The grooves also vaguely resemble the grooves on your shell fragment, if you imagine several of the groves on yours are missing.
So the conclusion for me is that your grandfather was hit by a piece of a shell of caliber at least 155mm. The definit anwsere will be very hard to find because of all the variations in liner band grooves depending on the nationality and maker of the shell. Maybe one day you will be lucky and get the exact answere. In the meantime, more precise mesurements of your fragment are necessary. The thickness of the fragment can also give good info.
Remember there is also approximately a 15% probability that your grandfather was hit by friendly fire.

Thanks Jean-Loup for your efforts. I had thought about the possiblity of friendly fire. I know he was very near British forces at the Battle of Naples-Foggia where he received this "gift". He said he was very lucky as the shell fragment had lost much of its energy when it hit him and didn't do a terrible amount of damage. If I remember right, he also said it was very hot when it hit him. Ammersee