Items from the Prinz Eugen - vet estate

[harrison987]

hey guys...

These (along with everything else in the estate) came off the Prinz Eugen before she was scrapped.

I am curious if I can get some verification on what these were used for specifically? The lanterns most likely came from the Engine Room, as most items in the estate were from there.

First item is a bugle. Estate indicates it is a Mess Hall Bugle (KM stamped). Is this correct?

The thin chrome colored candle holders mount on a gimble (no KM markings). The Triangular one is painted in KM Grey. No markings, however, the newspaper inside is dated 1946.

The large one (last photo) is also KM Marked.

Thoughts?

Mike

[glaser]

throw it back on the scrapyard

[DonC]

The Prinz Eugen wasn't scrapped - she was a target for the Able and Baker A-Bomb tests in the Pacific, and still rests at the bottom of Bikini lagoon.


Don

[harrison987]

The Prinz Eugen wasn't scrapped - she was a target for the Able and Baker A-Bomb tests in the Pacific, and still rests at the bottom of Bikini lagoon.


Don

Same thing...

[DonC]

That would depend on the story you got when you bought them - did the seller claim they were taken from the ship "before it was scrapped"?


Given that there's really no way to prove they came from the Prinz Eugen, or in some cases are even KM items, I would respectfully argue that the purported story line in this case matters quite a bit.


Don

[harrison987]

That would depend on the story you got when you bought them - did the seller claim they were taken from the ship "before it was scrapped"?


Given that there's really no way to prove they came from the Prinz Eugen, or in some cases are even KM items, I would respectfully argue that the purported story line in this case matters quite a bit.


Don

Hi,

I got them from the estate of Commander William Handley...who served as Chief Engineer on the Prinz Eugen....and was one of the 8 US NAvy personnel who took part in bringing her (and the German crew) over to the USA in late 1945/1946

He liberated them from the ship himself, and everything is 100% legit.

So yes, there is a way to prove they are from Prinz Eugen. I also have the original Engine Room handbook and manuals from the ship, and various other items that prove they are from Prinz Eugen.


He was in the Navy Reserve, and never served overseas in Europe, nor took part in any other action.

This was his only assignment, before going back regular duties and eventually Coast Guard.

[compressore]

Can you post clear pics of the KM stamp ?

[harrison987]

see attached

[JustinG]

There is a saying that one should buy the item and not the story. With a grouping of random items, without specific provenance, A letter and a few photos of Commander Hadley with the items in question and corroborate the story, then many will remain skeptical. If you are pleased with them, than that's what matters. When it comes time to sell them; you will need to prove definitive provenance of these items.

Best Regards,
JustinG

[harrison987]

Not true at all.

Handley never served during the war. He was in the Navy reserve and in 1945 was assigned to collect the ship with eight other officers.

His only service was aboard this ship.

After this assignment he went on to civilian duties and coast guard duty.

His full record proves this.

His small collection of German memorabilia is from the Prinz Eugen. In fact... The engine-room manual that is clearly stamped Prinz Eugen with English notations... Plus the artwork that have wartime commemorations on them referencing the Prinz Eugen are 100% proof.

this isn't something I got from somebody who got it from somebody who got it for somebody else.

These came directly from his estate including all his records, letters, and family information.

There is no doubt whatsoever that every single item is from thid ship, based on all the facts on hand.

[JustinG]

I see you have listed your items on ebay. I hope you get the funds you are after.
Since you are only selling the items and not the documents as shown on your listing, this makes it incredibly difficult for the future buyer of your individual pieces to document their authenticity. I am surprised that you didn't offer the group as one large lump.

Best of luck.

JustinG

[Marcel Banziger]

Ebay is full with such items with great stories claiming if came from this and this and was brought back by this and this. As mentioned above, buy the items, NOT the stories. Genuine items speak for themselves, stories can be made up by anyone.

[harrison987]

Ebay is full with such items with great stories claiming if came from this and this and was brought back by this and this. As mentioned above, buy the items, NOT the stories. Genuine items speak for themselves, stories can be made up by anyone.

Yes, but I am not a dishonest seller making up stories. I know where the items came from, and how they were obtained originally. I got them directly from the estate.

[BenVK]

I'm amazed at the sh!t you guys are giving Mike in regards to these items!

The provenance is about as rock solid as it gets and he has the documents to back it up. Inferring in a round about way that he's making the story up is pretty insulting IMO.

I would not have been so polite in my response as he has been!!

[Norm F]

Before tempers flare, nobody in this thread has suggested or implied that Mike has made up the story, and after he provided his ancecdote surrounding their acquisition the comments have been reasonable. They are interesting items, but Justin’s point is valid that when the group is broken up and absent the documents to which Mike refers, the chain of provenance will be gone and future sales become based upon heresay.

This observation is not meant to be insulting, it’s just a point of fact. Ideally, each item would be accompanied by photocopies of the documents and estate receipts in an attempt to keep the chain of provenance as intact as possible.

Best regards,
—-Norm