Re: KM Stopwatch

[chesterpiglet]

Hi all. I picked this up & have spent hours trying to find out if it is a period stopwatch with period markings. Any comments good or bad gratefully received. It comes with the lower part of its card box with insert & metal corner bars but no markings. Approx 50mm in diameter. Not working(I think it's the balance wheel).
Regards Rob



https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/2/...82119648_o.jpg

https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/2/...82119615_o.jpg

[Jeff V]

Horrible looking. I would return that immediately.

[phild]

Am I reading the movement serial number correctly at 94550? The watch itself is correct. The KM eagle engraving is often contentious as there were several different variations used. You can search this board and find some good threads. Like most other items that were made over many years a one to one comparison is not always a good way to tell good from bad even when looking at the same maker.

[Jeff V]

I would be most interested if phild or anyone else can show me a similar eagle on an original stopwatch. To me this is an ugly engraved fake eagle, looks like a child did it.

[phild]

I can only repeat that if one does a search on stop watch or junghans on this board they will find many threads about this particular style of engraving. The opinions are very divided.

My contribution, if any, is to ask about the WWII serial range of 29a movements. I have not been able to establish this range even after about 10 years of trying. I do know that anything over about 90,000 is very late war, if in fact it is even wartime. I would love to know for sure one way or the other.

Secondly, I would suggest that a faker scarfing up a bunch of minty wartime junghans stop watches to engrave a fake KM mark on seems un-likely. In other words a good number of this exact mark has been found on very original watches.

Third and last, this exact style marking has been found on a number of U-Jagd Junghans 29a watches. These are shown on this forum. My question is is there or was there EVER such a thing as a U-jagd watch without a KM eagle mark? I would love to see that.

[chesterpiglet]

Hi everyone. Thanks for all your comments, I had looked at many threads & posts on multiple forums which had all reached a similar inconclusive conclusion(I think my greatly enlarged photos don't necessarily help). There was one where the watch markings were dismissed but another forum member had one with good provenance that was identical. Unless you were the person to "liberate" such an item then even seemingly good provenance is still not guaranteed. Even in the Art World where provenance is seamlessly traced & documented there can be doubts with many "original" paintings that have been proved to not be so using modern techniques. Forgery & faking has always happened throughout history, it is not a modern thing. I am a member of a WW1 Aviation Forum where there are endless debates about parts from the Red Baron's plane. Back to the watch- I paid very little for it, these are my thoughts. It is hand engraved(which Junghans apparently did) & not done using a stencil - if you are going to churn them out a stencil would be the choice of the faker & he would have to know that Junghans watches were only engraved(we cannot decide whether they are right or not decades later). This example has the same finish all over it-inside & out, so the faker has had to engrave it & then refinish the whole watch inside & out with the same finish(which is in the letters). Lastly it doesn't work-surely if there was a plentiful supply you wouldn't bother with a broken one. As to the quality of the eagle, well I couldn't engrave like that now as an adult let alone as a child. I paid very little for it which has 2 possible meanings, firstly they didn't know what it was or secondly they thought it was a fake but £20 is below what a non military one would be worth surely. Just because an item is expensive doesn't guarantee authenticity. Anyway....................thanks again for all your comments which are much appreciated. Sincerely Rob

[afx20000]

No doubt, original!

[AndyC]

I post the linked pictures for future reference




Andy

[AndyC]

2

[AndyC]

3

[Mike TM]

Hello, this engraving is original. Another identical in a Junghans chrono.

regards
Mike

[Jeff V]

Well I stand corrected. Thanks for the additional images.