Is this Kriegsmarine Destroyer Name-Plate authentic?

[leproc]

Hello! I stumbled upon this interesting find on eBay for this destroyer. It's a name-plate mounted on mahogany wood. It is 65 cm wide and 24 cm high.



The seller said he doesn't know if its authentic, but I'm wondering if such an item is actually from the vessel. I'm aware that the Kriegsmarine is quite popular among collectors and thus can be forged pretty easily.

I'm edging toward fake / modern memorabilia, but it does look similar to this more authentic Kriegsmarine destroyer name-plate.



Thanks again!

[tystgaard]

Interesseting

Interesting

[tystgaard]

Interesting

I do not know enough about these to ad much. To me it looks promising.
Sometimes it helps to look ad the sellers other items. If its a seller that sells a lot
of fake junk, you should be more careful. If the seller only have this militaria item or sells other good items, you still need to be careful, but the odds are much better its a original item.

Nicolai

[leproc]

I do not know enough about these to ad much. To me it looks promising.
Sometimes it helps to look ad the sellers other items. If its a seller that sells a lot
of fake junk, you should be more careful. If the seller only have this militaria item or sells other good items, you still need to be careful, but the odds are much better its a original item.

Nicolai

The guy's shop is mainly filled with antique books, so he doesn't specialize in this sort of material. That being said, I'm still quite cautious because the seller doesn't seem to know if the item is authentic. I'm trying to find out how he obtained this item, whether it is from an estate sale or a relative.

If this is real, I would really like to bid on it since named objects are kinda rare. That being said, I don't know if its authentic (I'm hoping the seller could tell me, but he's German...and I'm American). After all, this forum has revealed to me that these kind of things could be easily modern recreations or commemorative items made after the war.

However, I'm hoping that this is authentic (meaning from the actual ship) because the destroyer isn't that well-known (she pedaled around and then got scuttled after running out of gas - not really a storied career). That being said, I do have a set budget since I don't want to bankrupt myself on a hobby.

I have higher hopes that the Karl name-plate is real (http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Kriegsm...cAAOxyUylTSCJL - the destroyer herself was later taken by the Soviets after the war), but the price is astoundingly out of my budget.

EDIT:

I did the measurement comparison and the Hermann name-plate is shorter than the Karl name-plate (65 cm vs 77 cm). I don't know if that makes any difference or help. There isn't much online about Kriegsmarine name-plates.

[tystgaard]

Nice

Looks like the seller from the link have some great items - Some of the items with
a very high buy now price. - He takes best offers, so maybe
he will accept realistic offers.

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Kriegsm...cAAOxyUylTSCJL -)

[leproc]

Looks like the seller from the link have some great items - Some of the items with
a very high buy now price. - He takes best offers, so maybe
he will accept realistic offers.

(http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Kriegsm...cAAOxyUylTSCJL -)

Are you talking about the Karl name-plate? The problem is that my budget is not in the thousands. I prefer to stick in the hundreds for now .

I'm willing to spend some coin for an authentic item...but it's the authenticity part that's difficult since these kinds of things can be copied and forged.

[tystgaard]

Yes

Yes

The one from the antique dealer is probably way overpriced. But you can make best offers. I have no idea what these go for. Would guess for a very high price it need to be a famous ship.

The seller with the Hermann Künne, looks alright. It could be a good find.
But yes its not the best idea to post link to the auctions, as it might get more attention and the price will go up.

As said I do not know enough about these to confirm its original. But
think it looks promissing. It looks like a kind of seller, that could have a good item.

Hope another forum member can confirm the originality, else go for it if the
price is not too high.

Nicolai

[tystgaard]

Hermann Künne

With a quick google search it seems like the ship sunk in 1940.

The paint on this one looks from the pics a bit more fresh than the other one.
Maybe it could have been from the wreck and restored and repainted?

Just a guess.

BR
Nicolai

[leproc]

With a quick google search it seems like the ship sunk in 1940.

The paint on this one looks from the pics a bit more fresh than the other one.
Maybe it could have been from the wreck and restored and repainted?

Just a guess.

BR
Nicolai

That's what the seller doesn't know. The wreck was exposed for about three months, so there is a chance somebody could've ran off with the sign.

That's one of my concerns - the sign looks pretty new compared to the other sign, though it could've been retouched and mounted on wood.

I don't know if this could be a commemorative piece either because the ship didn't do that much during the war. I'm just wondering how he managed to find it.

[NOR_collector]

Have anyone ever seen a Zerstörer with a name-plate or the boats name written anywhere on the ship? I have not seen any yet and I have looked at a lot of pictures of German ships. Some of the larger ships used their crest at the bow of the ship, but no name. If anyone has a picture where the actual name of the ship is written on the boat or on a name-plate, please post it here.

If they didn't had the name of the ship written on the ship it self, or on name-plates during the war, than these name-plates did not come from the ship unless it was taken off before the war. IMO one has to find a picture where you can see this type of name-plate on the ship to make sure that they wore actually used.

Regards,
André

[leproc]

Have anyone ever seen a Zerstörer with a name-plate or the boats name written anywhere on the ship? I have not seen any yet and I have looked at a lot of pictures of German ships. Some of the larger ships used their crest at the bow of the ship, but no name. If anyone has a picture where the actual name of the ship is written on the boat or on a name-plate, please post it here.

If they didn't had the name of the ship written on the ship it self, or on name-plates during the war, than these name-plates did not come from the ship unless it was taken off before the war. IMO one has to find a picture where you can see this type of name-plate on the ship to make sure that they wore actually used.

Regards,
André

I've only seen name-plates for American and English vessels. I've been also searching on my own...and I've hit a dead end. Maybe this is just a post-war item...or a fake souvenir for a hapless military enthusiast.

[NOR_collector]

I've only seen name-plates for American and English vessels. I've been also searching on my own...and I've hit a dead end. Maybe this is just a post-war item...or a fake souvenir for a hapless military enthusiast.

My thoughts as well.

[leproc]

My thoughts as well.

Oh well...

I haven't gotten in contact with the seller, so I don't know how he obtained this item.

I'm also trying to find out how this person obtained this - http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Kriegsm...cAAOxyUylTSCJL . This individual seems to deal with antiques, so he might know more about his item, which could help for the other name-plate.

Thus far though, I can't find any reference to this certain name-plate. I've seen flat giant name-plates that are used for ship commissioning, but they do not look like these flat blue signs.

[glaser]

Graf Spee CORONEL remembrance plate

[ATTACH]3909367[/ATTACH]

[leproc]

[ATTACH]3909367[/ATTACH]

I found this picture as well.



It does look like the blue signs, but nothing for destroyers. Since the seller isn't really a military seller (he deals more in books), I don't know if he can tell me much about it.

It's definitely close in design, but this is a cruiser...compared to a destroyer.