Tropical Camo Jacket on estand

[François B.]

Guys,

I came across this tropical jacket now for sale on estand.
To me the camo looks more fantasy then reality.
IMO pitty for the jacket

What's your opinion?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=896270



François

[lucalocatelli]

Luca

[compressore]

This jacket was discussed here and got mostly thumbs down......

[PrinzEugenGJ]

Have my doubts about the camo. Only because of the place where he bought it, the guy likes to mess with his stuff

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[km-spain]

As compressore has already said, this was already discussed with nor very positive opinions. Never seen a period picture of something like this in use, not for me.

[Zauberflöte]

As compressore has already said, this was already discussed with nor very positive opinions. Never seen a period picture of something like this in use, not for me.

Dear all, actually, the tunic itself was never really discussed (how could it based on only two small pictures). The only negative response was in the possiblity that something like this would or could be period be done. Surprising to me, in a hobby were we find new and off things every day...

Anyhow, here is the subject thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=camo

@KM Spain; since likey only on small unit level this tunic was camouflaged - obviously this is NOT according to regulations- I would find it extremely challenging to find a period picture of something like this in use. Hence me starting that thread, not to ask for the authenticity of the tunic. Having it in hand I felt no need to have this photo proof first btw, but of course to each his own opinion of course.

Would a period photo make this tunic more believable to any of you? Or can you trust your own judgement handling a item....;-)

[Zauberflöte]

...
To me the camo looks more fantasy then reality.

Dear Sir, I can imagine any sceptism but why?

The Russians, Americans and Japanese did it; how can you claim this to be fantasy only because it is not likely to be done?

I'm not new in the hobby neither is Mark, to be modest, so perhaps you can give our judgment some credibility.

I am happy to invite you to see the tunic in hand to really make a safe call? I will send you a PM.

[Gran Sasso]

The Russians, Americans and Japanese did it.

The germans, too. E.g. paratroopers.

[Zauberflöte]

The tunic becoming subsequently damaged good by this thread I have decided to -temporarely - remove it from the Estand.

The moderator is free to place the pictures in this thread in the hope unless that the tunic itself will become subject of constructive discussion and not the hypothetical discussion of that bored KM coastal artillery soldier yes or no brushing his tunic in the mediterranean sun...and perhaps forgetting to take pictures of it.

[François B.]

As my explanation for the fantasy. On this jacket yes, IMHO.
The jacket itself didn't suffer very much, only the areas with camo applied on the outside have wear (patina).
The camo looks to be altered. Why no wear on the edges of the collar and cuffs.
And the camo on the inside of the collar. The bright size stamps on the inside compared to the camo.
My humble opinion is that this is a good tropical jacket with not period applied camo. Buy the item not the story....... As we all say.

There are period pictures of Germans painting camo on fabric and cloth. With tents, Big tents, helmet covers and maybe uniforms.. I'm not a believer in this jacket, sorry.

And second of all, this jacket is being discussed here in this thread. Not damaged, as you call it.
It's still a free choice of a member to buy. And to give his opinion.


François

[Zauberflöte]

Francois,

It almost appears you had it in hands? But obviously you had not. The tunic is only lightly worn and probably most before the paint was applied. The patina I refer to is regarding the paint itself and indeed some shafing on exposed parts; things that occur also after handling a 70 year old garment. Perhaps it was hardly if ever worn afterwards, who can tell? The first wear a faker would make would be in the collar so that does not set me off. Comparrisson with the markings makes no sense IMO; it is a completely different application method and ink?

First you claim "To me the camo looks more fantasy then reality"; IMO you refer then, that such a practice could not have happened in reality, now you finally discuss the tunic itself. I still disagree - and there was never a story to buy btw, so I do not understand that remark- but thank you for weighing in.

[Jos L C]

What did they use to camo a tunic in the field, a simple brush, a spray gun for vehicles, maybe a cloth with paint on it, simple work, quick work ..
This looks more like a piece of art, it has flames in it .., .. air brush ?
I don't like it very much, it doesn't convince me.

I would only believe in exotic non-textbook stuff like this if I got it 1st hand or when it came with a era photo showing the same tunic, not when it came from A who got it from B, who got it from C etc ..
With no good provenance it will be very hard to convince people that the paint job was done during war, only the believer will pull the trigger.
Difficult stuff ..

Jos.

[90th Light]

What did they use to camo a tunic in the field, a simple brush, a spray gun for vehicles, maybe a cloth with paint on it, simple work, quick work ..
This looks more like a piece of art, it has flames in it .., .. air brush ?
I don't like it very much, it doesn't convince me.

I would only believe in exotic non-textbook stuff like this if I got it 1st hand or when it came with a era photo showing the same tunic, not when it came from A who got it from B, who got it from C etc ..
With no good provenance it will be very hard to convince people that the paint job was done during war, only the believer will pull the trigger.
Difficult stuff ..

Jos.

Well that is exactly how the New Zealand soldiers in the Pacific made their camouflage uniforms during WW2, with a spray gun

Have a look at this this thread to see what I mean. This is some of the rarest camo uniforms that there is in the world and it was all hand painted at the time;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=Zealand+camo

It is amazing what necessity dictates when your 12,000 miles away from UK jungle uniform supplies and the Japanese are right on the door-step, hell bent on changing both the government and flag,

Chris

[Zauberflöte]

What did they use to camo a tunic in the field, a simple brush, a spray gun for vehicles, maybe a cloth with paint on it, simple work, quick work ..
This looks more like a piece of art, it has flames in it .., .. air brush ?
I don't like it very much, it doesn't convince me.

I would only believe in exotic non-textbook stuff like this if I got it 1st hand or when it came with a era photo showing the same tunic, not when it came from A who got it from B, who got it from C etc ..
With no good provenance it will be very hard to convince people that the paint job was done during war, only the believer will pull the trigger.
Difficult stuff ..

Jos.

Actually the camo was done with a brush (the impression of the flames as you mention is caused by this) and quite crudely also (sometimes lifting the pocket flaps other times not) where some of the buttons have paint on it.
Also one should not underestimate the time soldiers had to indeed perform creations of art. Especially when low battle readiness is required as with manning coast fortifications....

But I subscribe to your evaluation, it will unlikely convince people when not seeing it in hand (I would be very sceptical as well standing in your shoes)...and even then.
Would I have had the original owners' photo to accompany this jaket the WAF would probably not even have known of this jacket's existence in the first place.

F.

[Frans H.]

It seems you were not comfortable with the tunic either. The same tunic is back to its owner (Mark van Tiel) and listed again on his site imcsmilitaria. This time without the shoulderstraps for €1650. Ready to fool another collector.