tirpitz cap

[fasol]

The Tirpitz never had an issued tally that we know of. This is a jumbled grouping. The Documents might be real but the hat and tally/Mützenband are not good.

Best Regards,
JustinG

Justin i appreciate your opinion , please see attahced This sailor's cap from the famous German battleship Tirpitz, which was sunk in 1944 in the fjord near Tromso, survives in the Lofoten Krigsminnemuseum, November 7, 2010.

[compressore]

Cap tally

Justin i appreciate your opinion , please see attahced This sailor's cap from the famous German battleship Tirpitz, which was sunk in 1944 in the fjord near Tromso, survives in the Lofoten Krigsminnemuseum, November 7, 2010.

Please note that with outbreak of the war, cap tallies were changed from ships/unit name to the generic "Kriegsmarine" tally for reasons of secrecy.
So there can not be a cap survived from the sinking with such a cap tally.

To the uniforms, please be skeptical on the blue shirt of which you shown the label. Better pictures needed.

[fasol]

i am not intrested in uniform at this point.... so the cap and tally are fakes ?

so the one in norwegian museum is also fake ?

[compressore]

Norwegian museum: cap maybe original..cap tally is not

As said, names on cap tallies were discontinued after outbreak of the war. The Tirpitz was commissioned on 1941 only.
Same as Bismarck...no cap tallies issued as commissioned 1940.

That something is displayed in a museum doesn't mean automatically that it is original or belonged to the theme it is displayed in.

Regards
Christian

[Marcel Banziger]

Many museums show fakes among their original items, a rather common thing happening everywhere.
I do agree with compressore that the tally is not real.

[Norm F]

The fake tally can be found on the internet for sale from various sources. I think you will find they're all the same.

[fasol]

Thank for your input in ruining my idea for display and thank you for saving my money on cap and tally. !

I have also posted award document on paper items forum for this guy can anyone confirm if its a genuine piece ?

[A.H. Thomassen]

Justin i appreciate your opinion , please see attahced This sailor's cap from the famous German battleship Tirpitz, which was sunk in 1944 in the fjord near Tromso, survives in the Lofoten Krigsminnemuseum, November 7, 2010.

I've several times told the owner of the museum that the cap-tally is a mumbo-jumbo, but I guess that he continues to cling on to the idea that the tally is original and thus super-duper-rare.

I guess you can't beat conviction even with knowledge

[schutzpolizei]

I've several times told the owner of the museum that the cap-tally is a mumbo-jumbo, but I guess that he continues to cling on to the idea that the tally is original and thus super-duper-rare.

I guess you can't beat conviction even with knowledge

I agree, the tally is one thing that caught my eye. But he's got so many other good things there, I try to ignore the questionable stuff. Really nice guy with a dream of a deal having that museum.

[glaser]

norwegian museum: Cap maybe original..cap tally is not

as said, names on cap tallies were discontinued after outbreak of the war. The tirpitz was commissioned on 1941 only.
Same as bismarck...no cap tallies issued as commissioned 1940.

That something is displayed in a museum doesn't mean automatically that it is original or belonged to the theme it is displayed in.

Regards
christian

+1!!!

[John R.]

As mentioned above, tally is a reproduction sold in the souvenir market. Along with Bismarck, Tirpitz never had named tallies issued to the sailors.

I say that since Bismarck tallies seemingly do exist from the period perhaps made for an honor guard, I do not know.

So you would not automatically reject any Bismarck or Tirpitz tally since you never know what might be out there, but the one on that cap is a souvenir market reproduction not meant to deceive anybody IMO.

I have heard of a couple Bismarck tallies out there but I have personally never seen one that displayed the characteristics of period examples. German collectors have seen one or two but where they are today, I do not know.

John

[compressore]

I say that since Bismarck tallies seemingly do exist from the period perhaps made for an honor guard, I do not know.

So you would not automatically reject any Bismarck or Tirpitz tally since you never know what might be out there, but the one on that cap is a souvenir market reproduction not meant to deceive anybody IMO.

I have heard of a couple Bismarck tallies out there but I have personally never seen one that displayed the characteristics of period examples. German collectors have seen one or two but where they are today, I do not know.

John

Interesting points.
I have note seen any honor guard photo with other than Kriegsmarine cap tallies during the war.
The TR regime was not keen on "announcing" defeats. If they had too, they quickly passed on with more convenient news.
I personally doubt that they created a honor guard with tallies remembering the sunken ships. Too much "reminder" of defeat and loss.

Regards
Christian

[John R.]

I mean such an honor guard, if one even existed, was for ceremonial purposes during construction or soon after launch/commissioning.

I agree, no such ceremonial tallies would have been created after sinking.

Or, someobdy had the power to have a couple made by the factory. We know "joke" tallies were made, maybe for a retirement or transfer party, and Justin has a Lutzow. Dani has a joke tally or two someplace--in other words, a play on names of the sailor, officer or ship.

I have some examples that should not exist also, which I will post in the future.

John

[Jeff V]

I would think that any tallies that exist from Bismarck or Tirpitz would have been from them being ordered by a supply officer before the outbreak of the war. Since none have been found this is either not the case or they went down with the ships.

[John R.]

That would make sense to me Jeff. That theory has been applied to the Prinz Eugen tallies also, but nothing definitive.

If the supply officer had ordered them in Bismarck and Tirpitz, it is possible a couple got loose from the safe and exist.

John