Cap Tally question

[Steve DT]

Hi guys,
I've been getting interested in tallys, and have read and re-read the pinned thread, but still have a question. In the discussion about the Sharnhorst tally, John said that the ends should be "even". I took this to mean they were cut at 90 degrees, but I saw some at a show on the weekend that were angled and the ends had the same stitching as the sides, so I must be wrong about that. Could someone please clarify for me?
Thanks, steve

[STUG III]

tally

I think he may have meant was the words or letters must have equal ends, possibly.
D.L.

[JustinG]

The Belfast fake (named after the HMS Belfast museum replica Scharnhorst tally) has a very tricky forgery. It has one leg of the tally that is shorter than the other. I personally wouldn't purchase one that had been cut with exception to a metal thread tally.
The Cotton/Baumwool version is the one that could be mistaken for the Belfast fake.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
JustinG

[NOR_collector]

Here you can clearly see that on the left side of the writing the tally is much longer than on the right side of the writing. This is what JustinG is referring to, I quote: It has one leg of the tally that is shorter than the other
This tally on the picture is the Cotton/Baumwool version that could be mistaken for the Belfast fake.

Regards,
Andre

[Steve DT]

Thanks a lot guys, makes sense now!
S

[Trance_Eyes]

Metallfaden only option on this baby!

[John R.]

Due to the quality of the fake, and as Justin stated, I mean that one should not buy any Scharnorst tally that has been shortened/cut. Somebody could cut down the Belfast fake to equal ends of course to try to fool you, so to avoid the issue completely, only do with tallies of equal ends at least 100 cms long in total.

John

[R.R.]

Hi guys,
I've been getting interested in tallys, and have read and re-read the pinned thread, but still have a question. In the discussion about the Sharnhorst tally, John said that the ends should be "even". I took this to mean they were cut at 90 degrees, but I saw some at a show on the weekend that were angled and the ends had the same stitching as the sides, so I must be wrong about that. Could someone please clarify for me?
Thanks, steve

Hi Steve, I agree with others about the care you need to have when purchasing cotton Scharnhorst tallies. I consider too only safe to purchase the metallic version on this case as suggested by Trance_Eyes.

About the way the tally was cutted, normally german tallies was cutted in angles, but some times we see one or other cutted in other way, I think it's not relevant if other good signs are present at tally.

But I'm curious about something you said at your post: "some at a show on the weekend that were angled and the ends had the same stitching as the sides". Please clarify to me what stitching you saw at tallies ends? Except when tallies was used at some determined kind of display, I never saw german tallies with the same stitiched used at sides at ends. All german tallies I have has the ends without stitching as cutted.

As sample my Saar tally without stitching on ends like all other tallies I have:



Regards,

Ricardo

[Steve DT]

Hi Ricardo,
Thanks for your post. I took some close-ups of the ends of my Admiral Graf Spee this morning so that you can see what I mean (and the pinholes from a previous owner). How many do you have? I wonder if they're usually like yours or like mine.
S

[John R.]

Very nice Graf Spee tally. My opinion, and it is a guess, is that the ends were stitched for display purposes to keep those ends from fraying. It is possible the sailor did it maybe to accomplish the same thing, but the pin holes show that it was mounted at some point in the past, maybe around a large photo of the ship.

Normally, the ends were not stitched in wear but there is no issue with this tally in regards to originality and in fact, I like the stitched ends in this case. Very neat.

John

[Norm F]

Very nice Graf Spee tally. My opinion, and it is a guess, is that the ends were stitched for display purposes to keep those ends from fraying. It is possible the sailor did it maybe to accomplish the same thing, but the pin holes show that it was mounted at some point in the past, maybe around a large photo of the ship.

Normally, the ends were not stitched in wear but there is no issue with this tally in regards to originality and in fact, I like the stitched ends in this case. Very neat.

John

I agree with John's assessment. But it looks like only the end on the right of this picture was hand sewn to prevent fraying; the edge on the left looks untouched to me. In either case Steve's closeup nicely shows the difference between those two ends and the top and bottom margins of the tally which show the typical selvage (selvedge to the British) that's produced on the loom and which cannot fray.

Best regards,
---Norm

[John R.]

Both ends look stitched to me, but maybe not.

John

[R.R.]

Very nice Graf Spee tally. My opinion, and it is a guess, is that the ends were stitched for display purposes to keep those ends from fraying. It is possible the sailor did it maybe to accomplish the same thing, but the pin holes show that it was mounted at some point in the past, maybe around a large photo of the ship.

Normally, the ends were not stitched in wear but there is no issue with this tally in regards to originality and in fact, I like the stitched ends in this case. Very neat.

John

I basically agree with John, and my only observation is: German tallies was cut in angle at factory with about 115,0 to 150,0 cm length without stitching on ends. Due KM regulamentation for tallies usage in service, both surplus ribbon tips was cutted very near to the junction at sailor's nape when in use. Normally these ends was not stitched, but it's not impossible sailor has stitched it to avoid fraying or someone latter for display purpose.

I agree with John too about tally originality, it looks to me too a fine Graf Spee tally like two others I have in collection. And amplifying your picture at my screen, seems to me only one end was hand stitched the other end looks to be very well cutted without fraying.