2 Bundesmarine cap tallies for review

[STUG III]

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Here are 3 more BM tallies with a reverse shot. The Marine Lehrkompanie BM tally was produced on the same machine as the WW2 type tally.

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3

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4

[Norm F]

Hard to say. Here's a Schulfregatte Gneisenau from eBay that looks a lot like Frank's Schulfregatte Hipper. Aside from the later all-caps font, the weave on the reverse looks a lot like the reverse of the Gothic font version from the opening post.

So maybe the chronological order for the Bundesmarine tallies was:
1) Gothic - wartime-style weave on the reverse (large loops), metal thread
2) Gothic - post-war weave on the reverse (tiny loops), cotton
3) Capitals - post-war weave on the reverse (tiny loops), cotton

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Comparison of the two Schulfregatte Gneisenau tallies.

[Norm F]

Here's a Metallfaden version (no reverse view unfortunately)

[Marine HJ]

Good day,

Blücher and Gneisenau are fake. Marine Lehrkompanie, Unterwasserwaffenschule and Technische Marineschule are early BM.

Indeed there are differences in the looks of manufacturing. MarLehrkomp and Uwaffenschule are very early and most probably made on old KM machines.

Rgds

Daniel

[STUG III]

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I know the Blucher tally is fake, that being said, wasn't there a 'Training Ship Geneisenau' in 1958? The weave on this is consistent with the 50's tally's shown earlier. From earlier posts the weave on the Lehr tally was only used one year until new machines came on line.
I know this is not a KM tally my take is it a 1958 version of the tally. Just my opinion.
Thanks.
D.L.

[Norm F]

Blücher and Gneisenau are fake. Marine Lehrkompanie, Unterwasserwaffenschule and Technische Marineschule are early BM.

Indeed there are differences in the looks of manufacturing. MarLehrkomp and Uwaffenschule are very early and most probably made on old KM machines.

Rgds

Daniel

If Technische Marineschule (which has the tiny loops on the reverse) is considered legitimate early BM, then I think the Schulfregatte Gneisenau would also have to be considered legitimate early BM as well? Although the photos are poor they have the same construction.

We know this construction is post-war, so for a wartime unit it's automatically a reproduction, but for a Bundesmarine unit like Schulfregatte Gneisenau would that not be considered legitimate? Of course, then there's the dilemma of what's the difference between genuine and repro Bundesmarine tallies...

Best regards,
---Norm

[STUG III]

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I will take closer and clearer photos of all my early BM tallies, when I have some time.
Thanks Norm for your in put.
D.L.

[STUG III]

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As promised, sorry for the delay. Here are the front, and rear, of 4 of my BM tallies. I more tallies, if more pics are needed let me know.
Thanks.

[STUG III]

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rear

[Marine HJ]

Good day,

Your gneisenau tally is meant to be for the training ship of the Bundesmarine. However, extreme caution should be considered as the early BM tallies were heavily faked by German collector who had very good connections to the Neiss company (the company who are making the tallies for the BM and ever did).
So, to be certain whether Repro early BM or original from the 50's you have to take the tally in your hands and compare the feeling of the black ribbon with one of the KM. They have to be both nice and smooth. Feel the fake km blücher for example. This is for sure rough.

How is your gneisenau?

Rgds

Daniel

[JustinG]

The Post just made by Dani should be added to the Cap tally thread pinned. (In my humble opinion)

Regards,
JustinG