Headgear question

[Herr_Flick]

Greetings fellow collectors,

I have a question towards headgear of daily usage lets say on board Adm. Graf Spee...would an Ob.Masch. (Oberfeldwebel) wear a tellermütze or would he Wear the NCO visor?


KR,
Carsten

[amiklic1]

Only NCO with portepee (Petty officers) were using visors, that's from Feldwebel to Stabsoberfeldwebel. Also, officer candidates wore visors, that's Fahnrich and Oberfahnrich.

Tellermutze was used by seemans (matrose to matrosenstabsgefreiter ranks) and lower NCOs, with ranks Maat and Obermaat.

[Herr_Flick]

Thank You for Your fast reply - much appreciated After "digesting" Your answer I read that it was possible for an Ob.Masch. (Obermaschinist/Oberfeldwebel) or St.Ob.Masch. (Stabsobermaschinist/Stabsfeldwebel) wearing a tellermütze - being without portepee that is. Also do I understand the term "portepee" correct - equal "officer candidate"?

The reason I'm asking this question is I'm researching a Group of mine. Among the content in the group there is a cap tally and there is a possible link to a Last name. I found the crew list of the ship and found 3 possible persons with that last name (one is outruled - photgraphic ID'ed) - one plausible being a Ob.Masch. the other St.Ob.Masch. That is the only lead I got, hence I asked it would be plausible for one with that rank wearing a tellermütze. The crew list contains all NCO on one page only - being officer candidates in foriegn language. The is no other pages with NCO mentioned, so I can't clarify wether it's with or without portepee.


KR,
Carsten

[amiklic1]

"with portepee" denotes higher rank NCOs, not in fact that they were using portepees (portepee is a sword and dagger knot, and in Kriegsmarine all personnell who were permitted to wear a daggew were also permitted to wear portepee on it, I think).

All of your mentioned ranks were wearing tellermutze.

[compressore]

Sorry, I think it's mixed up. All mentioned ranks Obermaschinist, Stabsobermaschinist were wearing a visor cap, not a tellermuetze! They are NCO's with portopee !

P.S.
Faehnriche and Kadetten were not allowed to wear the portopee.

[amiklic1]

Sorry, I think it's mixed up. All mentioned ranks Obermaschinist, Stabsobermaschinist were wearing a visor cap, not a tellermuetze! They are NCO's with portopee !

P.S.
Faehnriche and Kadetten were not allowed to wear the portopee.

You're right, my mistake.

KM ranks are amongst the most complicated, so looking through the lists can easy confuse.

[compressore]

Mistake

You're right, my mistake.

KM ranks are amongst the most complicated, so looking through the lists can easy confuse.

My friend,
how about a 1 page report: "Ranks of the German Kriegsmarine" at 7:30 AM tomorrow on my desk ? And dont copy from Angolia....

[Herr_Flick]

My friend,
how about a 1 page report: "Ranks of the German Kriegsmarine" at 7:30 AM tomorrow on my desk ? And dont copy from Angolia....

Thanks for the fast help Guys - much appreciated Unfortunatey for me - not the answer I hoped for as it leaves me with no leads at all.


KR,
Carsten

[compressore]

Maybe you post what you have in hand here, pics, names.....
We always try to help

Regards
Christian

[amiklic1]

My friend,
how about a 1 page report: "Ranks of the German Kriegsmarine" at 7:30 AM tomorrow on my desk ? And dont copy from Angolia....

I am writing the series of articles for Croatian digital magazine about military insignia "Semper Fidelis", in fact, but it's easy to be drown in everyday's tasks and mess-up even something you already know ;-).

First article is here, on p35:
http://sfidelis.net/index.php/casopi...delis-hr3-2012

2nd is here, front page with Norm's father and article on p.3:
http://sfidelis.net/index.php/casopi...delis-hr4-2013

and on p. 10 Kriegsmarine Standard Bearer insignia.


Next one will be published in December, where I will explain lower NCO (Maat/Obermaat) career insignia, than in the next the one of NCO with portepee, than officer's etc...

It's extremely complicated, especially the first one, with explanation of all ranks names over time, all the changes etc...

[compressore]

Good job, my friend. Yes, it's not so easy...specially when it comes to officers. I am still struggling with the different stati like reserve, beurlaubt etc.....
Any thoughts to make those articles available in English?

[amiklic1]

Good job, my friend. Yes, it's not so easy...specially when it comes to officers. I am still struggling with the different stati like reserve, beurlaubt etc.....
Any thoughts to make those articles available in English?

I was planning to add it into the book, but I have no time to even think about it right now.

[Norm F]

I would imagine that even a senior non-commissioned officer (ie. Feldwebel or Oberfeldwebel) who does not wear the Tellermütze might still pick up a cap tally with the name of the ship as a keepsake even though he wouldn't wear it. But if it's a generic "Kriegsmarine" tally or cut down to working length then yes it likely belonged to a junior non-commissioned officer (Maat or Obermaat) or an enlisted man.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Herr_Flick]

Thank You :0)

Thank You all for answereing my question - much appreciated The cap tally is cut for Wear hence it can't have belonged to ranks in question. So sadly the one slug in the chaimber of the smoking gun towards a possible ID of the Group of mine turned out to be a dud.


KR,
Carsten