Kriegsmarine uniform photo study

[NickG]

Look at this interesting picture. It's taken at St.Nazaire, France in 1944.
This is one of the port cities (with the famous U-Boot pens) that was by-passed by the Allies and turned into a fortress..
(which surrendered in May 1945).

The men in the picture with KM officers are actually civilian technicians working at this Naval facility.
Their uniforms are interesting!

[NickG]

Here's my theory on what we are seeing here; (Initially I thought Teno related but that's not the case...)

In my view these are civilian technicians, who were working at the U-Boot base and became trapped inside the fortress.

In 1944 when the Volkssturm was created these men were militarized and were issued KM field gray Coastal uniforms with KM blue overseas caps.
Their tunics are devoid of shoulderstraps and on their collars they are wearing Volkssturm rank tabs as per the VS regulations. Some men devoid of rank tabs/pips =lowest ranks.

Most men look like they are past military age...so VS would fit the bill!
If that is the case, what this means, if true, is that some VS units operated outside of the Reich territories which would be a revelation to me!
Thoughts on this plausible theory?

Btw some men are wearing KvK ribbons in their tunic button holes (which were also issued to civilians for war related achievements, like Uboot maintenance)

[Kapitänleutnant]

Very interesting picture.

The two officers are Kriegsmarine technical officials!

The other men I would guess TENO

[NickG]

Yes my initial thought as well but those are not TENO tabs...like I wrote.
Puzzling...

[germanpolice]

TeNo became part of the police in 43, 44 and wore the police eagle in black, as well as this they wore the double collar patches as in this photo,

[NickG]

TeNo became part of the police in 43, 44 and wore the police eagle in black, as well as this they wore the double collar patches as in this photo,

Yeah I have seen that image before. I remember now! Good point! So still TeNo as a possibly than, using late war rank collar tabs as twin sets (just like VS would...)
It's interesting that they were issued Kriegsmarine uniforms instead of Pol pattern, and tunics without the TeNo Polizei sleeve eagle and the uniforms also lack shoulderboards
so appearing like VK style...
So the lack of any shoulderboard insignia made me automatically think Volkssturm but outside of the Reich that would be strange... hence me wanting to post this oddity here!
None of these guys (10 men showing collar tabs in total )wear vertical tresse (silver ranks bars) on their tabs either...a late war Teno-Polizei thing...based on the portret photo....
so they still look like VK tabs to me...Tabs are also less rectangular than late war TeNo too...More shorter SS / NSKK style like VS would wear...Still puzzling...

Who knows? I guess even with these discrepancies late war TeNo is still a plausible answer and they wore what they were able to find (from Naval stores) in this fortress city.

[NickG]

I did find this info on the web: (not including Poland and Baltics)
There were at least four Volkssturm Batallionen outside of Germany, two in Denmark, (400 and 402) and two in Bohemia-Moravia (605 and 610).
So these did exist outside of Reichsgebiet...

There is also a mention of a Volkssturm afilliated "Kampfgruppe Dunkirchen" (=Festung Dunkirchen, another Atlantic port fortress, which surrendered in 1945)
So similar Adhoc unit with civilians in uniform?...? "Kampfgruppe St Nazaire" ? or still TeNo?

[compressore]

Hi,

My question is:
The Volkssturm was founded in September 1944, at a time Nazaire was already surrounded and cut off. How those Volkssturm-members would have been brought there ? As far as I know the supplies to Nazaire were brought by submarines. I doubt that they were carrying troops of the Volkssturm.
Just my thoughts on this topic..but anyway a very interesting picture.

Regards
Christian

[germanpolice]

Could also be werschutz they wore many different uniforms also civilian dock guards

[amiklic1]

Here is the photo from the book Unsere Marineuniform, by J. Zienert, published in 1970. Great reference for all German naval uniforms.

I just noticed this photo earlier today, but I haven't read through in search of the details. Maybe some German-speaking members can find more details inside, if they have the book.

It's not the same uniform, but it seems that the collar tabs are similar.

[NickG]

Hi,

My question is:
The Volkssturm was founded in September 1944, at a time Nazaire was already surrounded and cut off. How those Volkssturm-members would have been brought there ? As far as I know the supplies to Nazaire were brought by submarines. I doubt that they were carrying troops of the Volkssturm.
Just my thoughts on this topic..but anyway a very interesting picture.

Regards
Christian

Not brought there Christian, already stationed there as CIVILIAN specialists in dock and boat maintenance and militarized when the port got cut off
and turned into a fortress...They would not bother sending reenforcement troops from the VS ranks by uboot...
That's out of the question of course...These men were trapped there!
Its really just a wild theory...based on lack of shoulderstraps and VS like collar tabs...

amiklic1 contribution is interesting as it shows indeed the same collar tabs, again similar to VS, but worn with what is described an OT uniform with again
no shoulder rank insignia. Probably indeed just some sort of specialists civilian contractors/dock workers related men assigned to KM related duties wearing
mixed uniform pieces... The dual rank tabs and the Navy blue KM side caps were the norm....

[compressore]

Hi Nick,

When those man were trapped, would it had not been easier to put them into the Kriegsmarine units instead of bringing in rank tabs etc. from a completely different organisation structure like Volkssturm reporting to the political branch of the government?

Regards
Christian

[NickG]

True but if they are civilian and not of military age and perhaps no military experience
absorbing then in the KM might not have been an option. Giving them VS status they are
allowed to be armed and defend the fortress.
Might still just be some kind of other unit...still odd mixture of uniforms which is what the
VS wore...whatever was a available...