KM Celestial globe

[jacquesf]

I don't know anything about these, but it is helluva nice. J

[amiklic1]

...and here is a Luftwaffe-marked globe from another forum.
http://militariahistory.iphpbb3.com/...e2a3be91d091fb

Unfortunately I do not know German so I am using GoogleTranslate, but I have managed to figure out from the thread mentioned that these were used by LW in the bombers during the night and during the practice. Other member says it's not listed in the list of aircraft equipment, so it can be only for training purposes.

All LW equipment was marked by "Fl" as it's noted on that thread, whilst naval stuff is marked with an "M" and eagle.

Last post in the thread clarifies a lot about LW-use of these globes:

From the literature and from a former instructor who worked in Seefliegerschule in Warnemünde, I know for a long time that the same instrument was also used in the Luftwaffe. The globe was used primarily for training. The discovery of sky bodies and all the shining little stars and their correct identification is not an easy thing. The aircraft must fly very quickly, and therefore the whole crew must be trained very intensively.
The celestial globe was not on the flights, and he is a pure ground equipment. It was used, however, in the preparation of the flight (Fernaufklährerverbände).
During the flights, various star charts and so called "location-finder" was carried.

[amiklic1]

Interesting, similar to above one (LW model) has been on ebay for centuries, it seems.
No photo shows "FL" mark, and it's been listed as U-boat globe. Blah....
And all of that for just 9.000,00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=231052264534

[48RMC]

That's a wonderful and scarce item Andjelo well done i hope to obtain one of these in the near future, but i'm afraid it would be difficult to find one for a decent price but as always keep dreaming

[Norm F]

Hi Andjelo,

Very very cool. Thanks for posting.

Is there some type of KM marking on it?

Your collection has become quite the museum. I still think about that KM record player you posted previously.

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

Thanks 48RMC and Norm!

Unfortunately, KM eagle and number are removed.

Something is visible on the photo below. When it comes I'll check if it's possible to restore it, as maybe the scratches are not too deep and are covered with paint.

[berkenkruis]

fantastic piece Andjelo
i like it
thanks for sharing all thes nice foto links, very interesting
grtz,Rudy

[amiklic1]

And here is the last one I can find. It belongs to a forum member, but I found it on Internet.

Here is what he says about it:
...was removed from U-570 on her surrender south of Iceland in Augost 1941 after only a 3 month career.

Just now I realize that it's the same piece which was in Atlantic-Pirat collection, which makes the count less one.
So, it' 10 "large" and 6 "small" pieces known to exist based on Internet reference, including the one below from Skinner auction.
Of course, I believe there are more in museums and private collections...

[amiklic1]

"Small" model sold on Skinner auction in 2012 for $2,015

[Stan]

When I bought my Star Globe in 1999 from a UK collector he had two and I chose the one with the blue background as it looked nicer than his other one with a white background.

I have no idea where that one is now and I have lost contact with him.



Stan

[WWIIBuff]

Congratulations Andjelo!!! What an awesome piece to have in your collection. I am happy that you have it, but a little jealous too.

This is also a great reference thread you have put together.

[amiklic1]

Thanks. As said, my collection has grown higher than I could even dream two years ago.
I still remember looking at all great threads with collections and thinking how all that headgear is too rare and too expensive and that I'll maybe find one piece for myself.

Today I have 20 .
Not all KM but Austro-Hungarian, Croatian WW2, Royal Yugoslav, Japan...

[John R.]

To explain a little on how these worked, if you were the navigator one of the first steps you did before you actually shot a star (after getting the time) was to determine which star you were looking at. The sun is of course easy and is the main navigational star used by navigators--it helps that it rises and sets at a specific time each day and rises to an exact local apparent noon once a day. Running sun lines can also be used by a navigator.

The globe was not needed for the sun of course, or the moon.

I had navigation responsibilities for many years in the US Navy and Merchant Marine but we did not use a globe. We used the "rude starfinder"--a flat device which uses 10 templates that indicate the stars to be shot that evening. This was used in WW2 and through today I expect in spite of satnav. Probably not often though and only when used in a training exercise maybe.

It sounds a bit complicated and in the beginning it is--however, these devices are not actually necessary for navigation on a ship too often. The reason is that you are steaming along at a relatively slow speed and for a U-boat, really slow speed. Therefore the planets and stars are not going to be much different night to night.

You are only looking for the brightest ones or you will not be able to find the one you are looking for in the sextant telescope. You only shoot stars/planets when they first pop out at night. If you wait too long, you will not be able to find the right one since too many stars are out. A navigator will always take evening and morning stars and be prepared even if the sky will probably be cloudy. You need at least 3 good stars with good separation to solve the navigational triangle. 5 stars are great if you can get it.

Attached is an image of the US rude starfinder designed to permit the determination of the approximate apparent altitude and azimuth of any of the 57 selected navigational stars tabulated in the Nautical Almanac. All of the 57 navigational stars are shown on each side at their positions relative to the appropriate pole in a type of projection called an azimuthal equidistant projection. In this projection, the positions of the stars relative to one another are distorted, but their true declination's and azimuths relative to the pole are correct. Each star on the base is labeled, and its magnitude is indicated by its symbol, a large heavy ring indicates first magnitude, an intermediate sized ring second magnitude, and a small thin ring third magnitude. The celestial equator appears as a solid circle about four inches in diameter on each side of the star base, and the boundary of each side is graduated to a half-degree of LHA of Aries.

There are 10 templates included for use with the star base.

It sounds hard but beyond the mechanics, navigation is an art and some navigators were better than others. That said, the biggest problem for a U-boat was that it bounced around and sat low in the ocean making it tough for the navigator to get a good altitude on the star. That is where the art came in.

Back to the globe star finder, I really do not think it was used that often on a U-boat or for many of the German ships. Not like they were transiting the Pacific at high speed and relatively speaking, the Atlantic is small. So they already knew which planets and stars were up and did not have to search for them.

They would get ready, have an assistant next to him or maybe below in a U-boat, and the navigator would shout down when he shot the star, the assistant would note the time (GMT) and the altitude in degrees provided by the navigator. Then on to the next star--like I said, a minimum of 3. Since there is a time lag between each shot, the first shots have to be advanced on the chart to the last shot.

The navigator would go to the chart table and work out the navigational triangle and once done, adjust the course to get back on track. The Captain and the Officers of the Deck would not check the work of the navigator but certainly would check the new position and how it affected the patrol.

The weather was terrible often or the sky overcast, so the entire drill was futile and you depended on dead reckoning or electronic navigation. You then hoped you could get a decent shot of the sun the next day but I bet they would go for days and days only on a dead reckoning estimated position.

So the Germans used this globe and the US Navy used the rude starfinder. Same idea, same outcome although I would have preferred the rude starfinder and a German sextant to navigate. Best of both worlds. A WW2 US Navy sextant was only OK and needed a skilled man to calibrate the thing. If you dropped the sextant, better hope nobody saw you and hope you did not damage it. You would have to re calibrate it before next use though.

All that said, the German globe is very beautiful while the rude starfinder is functional and not art. All navigation became much easier compared to prior years when in the 1930's star tables were developed that simplified solving the geometry of the triangle. Remember, a slight error in calculations would result in no fix and a large triangular "hole" where instead you had hoped a pinpoint intersection would appear on your chart instead. You would need to inform the Captain of the bad results and do better next time.

John

[amiklic1]

John, thanks a lot for the explanation!

[frank savage]

Really cool!

I have ever loved these Uboot stuff!!!

Best,