Opinion on U BOAT PLAQUE

[sashav]

Hi There,
Few days ago this piece came in trade. I would like opinions on it , has anyone seen anything similar.
I hope pictures will do the justice, has nice cracked paint and on the edge of the lettering, you can see the traces of the red paint.
I am not sure if someone has try to enhance the image and letters at some point.
It would be nice to see some photographic evidence that this plaque was in use if it is a genuine piece.

Size is 19cm X 14cm or approx 7 inches by 5 inches

THANKS IN ADVANCE
Sasha

[sashav]

back side

back side

[sashav]

few more photos

few more photos

[Trance_Eyes]

Hi Sasha,

IMO looks like a nice period piece.

Reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_U-boat_Flotilla\

Just what or where it was used I'm not sure, perhaps others could elaborate?

Cheers
JustinC

[JustinG]

I have not seen any wandplatte or Schiffswappen for particular flottille.
This piece seems to have the weathering and aging.
Henroit Quimper manufactured ceramic tiles and had the various flottille designs. The Ballast tanks have a outline as an oval in white as shown in the wikipedia link JustinC provided.

This does look promising, since it was offered in trade, would you mind sharing what was exchanged or offered for this piece?

Maybe I can do beter as I collect various ships wappen.

Regards,
JustinG

[sashav]

U boat plaque

THANKS JUSTINC and JUSTING.
Does anyone has anything similar that they can post just for comparison.
THANKS

[JustinG]

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/47...le/?hl=quimper


Here are the tiles I was talking about. This link is for GMIC.

There is a 2nd U-flottille example.

Regards,
JustinG

Have no examples of plaques though.

[JustinG]

I've found it. In Gordon Williamson's Torpedo Los toward the back there is a photograph provided by Michel Legrand. Pg 356
There are many similar features.


Regards,
JustinG

[sashav]

plaque

Hi JastinG,
Can you please post picture , if possible of course.
Sasha

[JustinG]

I don't want to break any copyrights. Gordon Williamson used to be a member on the forum. The owner of the plackard is a lifetime member. (Michel)

I will attempt to PM him and see if he would give his two cents on your piece and possibly compare with his.

Regards,
JustinG

[Michel]

Hello,

To answered to the JustinG request, old pictures of my shield.

Best regards from France,

Michel

.

[JustinG]

Thank you Michel.
Very interesting to see the marker stamp on the back.
Yours has similar traits as the one provided by Michel. However, yours has the outline where it looks like the individual created the shape of the design then filled in with black or white. This is of course an area of concern. There are many features that look good. These are rare pieces and without provenance can be a collecting area mined with post war and in some cases, outright fantasy items.

These unique items fall in the same category with the u-boat tradition badges. They are highly desirable to have an original example and so skilled metal artisans are creating "new" tradition badges. A real badge can be worth several hundred up to several thousand depending on the unit. Provenance is established by having a personal collection from someone who served. (Soldbuch, award document stating unit or command assigned, photographs, etc...) But without provenance, it is a risky venture for these items to change hands and it will be always with great skepticism received from a collecting community or potential future buyer.


Best regards,
JustinG

[sashav]

U Boat shield

Hi JastinG,

Thanks on your research and help.

Lets keep our minds open for few scenarios:

1. Is it possible that this shield / plaque could of been made in work shop at some of Kriegsmarine facilities. In stead of ordering directly from manufacturer they have made it at local level. We are not talking about some mass produced piece that would required order of 500 or 2000 or more ....

2. When it comes to faking items it is common practice. And same applies to this piece, there is greater possibility that is a fake then not. Close to 80% of German WW2 items floating around are fakes.

3. On other hand my friends father ( Canadian Vet ) had some war trophies and they where judged as fakes by dealers???? My friend was in disbelief knowing very well the source of the items and he had provenance. In other words we are walking in the mine field but it is up to us to make correct judgment on the end.

SASHA

[JustinG]

It really is a minefield out there with regards and there has to be some research.

Your friends Father who was a Canadian Veteran, if he provides dates and unit, brigade, company etc.. It can better credit the story. If he was in a unit that was no where near the uflottille, then, there would be speculations.

With regards to badges, there are several companies as I assume you are aware, that were involved with producing pieces after the war with left over stock. So while the badges might have been "war time produced" they could have been post war assembled and the collecting community does not have as much love for these pieces.


At the end of the day, if you are satisfied with the trade, then you have nothing to worry about.


Regards,
JustinG