May I get opinions on these two? Thanks
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IMO good Assmann gold summer uniform eagle with unusual hardware Howard. Identical to a silver one posted by Jager100 in Heere uniforms & insignia forum that I commented on yesterday.
The only thing weird about these (with this mounting system) is that I had never seen one before (and I have seen a few summer birds) yet its the fourth specimen like this I see in less than a month! They must have started migrating from somewhere...
Best regards
JCComment
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Krieg birds
JC, I am wondering where they ae migrating from??? To me the rear assembly looks flimsy for 3rd Reich craftsmanship. Yet I was unsure about the bird itself. If that many are starting to pop up I begin to wonder about post war production? Thanks for your input.Comment
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Hi Howard,Originally posted by HowardC View Post
First off, not an expert on these just an avid enthousiast but I like these (even though I dont have one myself... yet!). Since I remember the days when 134 DKIGs, D1 flight badges and tons of other stuff were all considered highly dubious (and outright crap by some) I tend to be cautious and thread carefully (maybe too carefully) when exposed to new stuff but, IMO, this bird isnt as odd as it seems and the fact I hadnt seen any before doesnt mean diddly sqwat because I wasnt paying much attention to these until recently (when I could afford to collect the bigger stuff
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Sorry I dont know how to post a link properly but if you go to the " KM summer breast eagle" thread a bit lower on this page in this forum you will note that:
1) design/die wise this eagle coincides exactly to marked (or unmarked) specimens of the Assmann 1st pattern breast eagle (posts 55 & 88), the very one they show in their catalogue (reprint). The hardware used here isnt typical of the Assmann birds I had seen before but to be honest these never generated much interest (and pictures) so who knows how many are around with this set up
2) Its known that some makers used "3rd party" parts and hardware at times or in lieu of making their own and the unusual hardware on your piece coincides with that found on other original specimens: post 25 for the "flimsy" hinge and post 85 (the second bird) for the catch for example
3) This is a new bird (for the mounting set-up) to me based on the picture archives I had built up over the years but when you start collecting and paying more attention to these I must say I've also picked up a few others made from known dies that didnt have the "typical" hardware for this given maker
Best regards
JCComment
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Kriegsmarine fake breast eagle
The metal eagle presented in #3 and # 4 is unfortunately for the owner, a fake. I bought one with exactly this type of hinge and hook already 20 years ago from a dealer who had several of these in a box. As a boy I was very proud with it until I figured out that this dealer only sold copies! So, look at these typical dark spots at the back of these eagles, a good indication to be cautious!
See some new versions of similar copies here:
http://e-militaria.com/catalog/germa...nic/index.htmlComment
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To Jean-Claude: I have to add that on my copy, there was no A marking present.
To HowardC: So maybe we have to do the ultimate test on this eagle: is the hinge easily bending by applying some finger force?Comment
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Kriegsmarine breast eagle Assmann catalogue
can anyone who has the Assmann's catalogue post a picture of what the front of the Assmann eagle should look like please?Comment
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kriegsmarine breast eagle Assmann back pictures
[ATTACH]2478577[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2478578[/ATTACH]Comment
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Hi Glaser
I cant see your pictures so I have attached scans of the gold & silver eagles appearing in the Assmann catalogue as you requested. You could be right of course about this bird being a copy but, to me:
1) Im not sure how consequent the fact that this bird is marked with the Assmann "A" is or not to this issue. Three of the 4 I have seen recently (including Howard's) were marked, another wasnt and neither was yours but you usually see as many unmarked Assmann 1st pattern summer birds as you see marked ones. My 2 "A" birds (with a different mounting systems but made from the same dies) are unmarked and I recently missed a nice marked one (with yet another mounting system variant) so I dont think the mark was consistently applied or an absolute proof of originality (most second pattern "A" repros floating around for $20.00 are all beautifully marked!)
2) The fact the dealer usually sold copies and had a few of these 20 years ago is not necessarily indicative that these are copies as these birds were never in very high demand (at least until recently when they seemed to become a hell of a lot more fashionable) and do occasionally show up as lots/boxes
3)I'm no welder or chemist but the black weld residue can also be found on other specimens by this (& probably other makers) that are unquestionably original and is also encoutered on other thin metal badges with welded hardware.
4) The "hinge sqwishing test" will no doubt show how flimsy/fragile the hinge on this particular variation is but to be of any relevance it should be compared to how "sqwish-resistant" this hinge assembly is on know originals birds where its employed (like the one shown in post 25 of the " KM summer breast eagle")
Take care
JCComment
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kriegsmarine metal eagle
Thanks foir posting the pictures of the catalogue JC! This is becoming a really interesting thread! The eagle presented is identical to the one in the Assmann catalogue, that is for sure now. To bad that they did not depict the back side in the catalogue for collector purposes 75 years later.
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Hi Glaser
The pictures you had posted in post #11 just showed up for me: couldnt see then before now!
They do show the reverse of an original Assman bird but its a massive second pattern in zink not the first pattern Howard posted and we were discussing. I am attaching front & back pictures of my second pattern like yours below.
I can tell you the 2nd Assmann bird also exists in a number of variations (solid zink, hollow stamped and a cloth mounted aluminum version) with different mounting systems so they really did like variety!
Take care
JCComment
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Sorry duplicate postComment
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