KM Leutnant shoulder board question

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

What do you think about the metal eyelets on the button holes of these Leutnant shoulderboards? Is this period, and if so, does it say something about period of manufacture?

As an aside, I notice that the mounting pins for the metal communications insignia on the reverse don't match suggesting they weren't a matched set and added later?

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

If you look better, not only reverse of the devices, but also obverse doesn't match.

It smells like assembled pair to me, but it's not impossibe that those two shoulderboards were parts of two different pairs, also.

The left one has clearly visible button hole widened by the once existing screw-button, while the right one does not. Also, the widest parts at the base are not exactly the same, both on obverse but especially on reverse side (different dimension of the added black cloth).

[km-spain]

Hi Norm, IMO early pre-war shoulders for the froch-coat, good quality finish with typical metal eyelets for the screwback buttons and silver made tress. About the devices is clear that they are not matched, but added latter or then, who knows, anyway nice set.

[Norm F]

Hi Eduardo,

Thanks. Is it the metal eyelets that suggest pre-war construction or is there some other feature that suggests this? Do you have a timeline for shoulder board production?

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Norm, I don't have a timeline, but these T type shoulder boards made in high quality with silver thread tress and these metal eyelets were used with froch-coat on early years, so IMO these are from pre-war.

[amiklic1]

Yes, I agree. Nicely manufactured high-quality items are early ones.
I have something similar on my frock coat.

Unfortunately I sold most of my shoulder boards recently to be able to buy another nice item(s), but I already got some of them new, so no need to worry.

Here is pic of mine, on frock coat (from dealer's site, now the boards are not going through the epaulette strap):

[Norm F]

Thanks Guys. I wonder when or if they stopped using metal eyelets?

Second question. Regarding these Funkmeister shoulder straps in cellon, do we know roughly when these made the transition from gilt wire tress to the cellon tress?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Third question! Of the two sizes of silver pips (small and large) found on the Feldwebel straps is one earlier than the other?

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Third question! Of the two sizes of silver pips (small and large) found on the Feldwebel straps is one earlier than the other?

Best regards,
---Norm

IMO the small ones are earlier.

[km-spain]

Thanks Guys. I wonder when or if they stopped using metal eyelets?

Second question. Regarding these Funkmeister shoulder straps in cellon, do we know roughly when these made the transition from gilt wire tress to the cellon tress?

Best regards,
---Norm

Norm, not sure but I think that could be arround 1940.

[Norm F]

Norm, not sure but I think that could be arround 1940.

Thanks Eduardo, but which question were you answering with 1940 -- the date they stopped using eyelets on shoulder boards or the date of switching to cellon tress shoulder straps?

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Norm, I was talking about the switching to cellon tress shoulder straps, but probably it works also for the date they stopped using eyelets on shoulder boards .

[Norm F]

Norm, I was talking about the switching to cellon tress shoulder straps...

Hi Eduardo,

It's an interesting question. I was interested to see these Coastal Artillery straps on Collector's Guild. These seem to be the bluish-dark green badge cloth base that we usually associate with the pre-M40 Feldbluse, but are combined with cellon tress which made me think maybe the cellon tress was introduced in 1939, along with cellon thread eagles and wreaths?

Having said that, you can see the thick embroidered coastal artillery symbols below the metal ones, so maybe these were older embroidered straps that were later upgraded to NCO straps with cellon tress after 1940?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

IMO the small ones are earlier.

Hi Eduardo,

Back to these shoulder straps. In your opinion, is it consistent with one time period to find these small pips on cellon tress straps or would you expect larger pips by this time?

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Norm, later than 1939-40 you can find dark green KA shoulder boards, as the Holland made model, or others, and after that dated the makers-tailors used the stock pieces that they had, IMO there is no problem with dark green or small pips used together with celleon tress, the time line for these pieces is not very clear as the used what they have at that time.