KM insignia ?

[valsente]

Hello guys,
which kind of KM insignia is this one? It measures 60x30 mm.
Thanks a lot in advance
Val

[Jean-Claude]

Nice bird Val,

To me its a 1st pattern KM visor cap eagle which was replaced in 1937 (I think) by second pattern shown in attached picture

Regards

JC

[valsente]

Nice bird Val,

To me its a 1st pattern KM visor cap eagle which was replaced in 1937 (I think) by second pattern shown in attached picture

Regards

JC

Thanks a lot JC.
Val

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Very interesting. I have the equivalent pin in smaller size which is the 1st pattern eagle for the early Tellermütze, but I hadn't yet seen this bigger one, presumably for the white topped visor. Surprising we haven't seen them posted before, unless I just can't find them. Is there any other official that could have used a similar insignia?

I'll just upload here your interesting photos from the host server so they're not lost to the thread. It looks excellent and as expected is a shallower depth stamping than the later design.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's a comparison of the relative sizes of metal eagles.

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Hi Norm, I do not agree with you, IMO the 1st pattern shown here is for visor cap, the smaller size and much rarer eagle for teller was of 3,7 cm, a picture for comparation, and a period portrait to compare them.

[Norm F]

Hi Norm, I do not agree with you, IMO the 1st pattern shown here is for visor cap, the smaller size and much rarer eagle for teller was of 3,7 cm, a picture for comparation, and a period portrait to compare them.

Hi Eduardo,

Thanks very much for the insight! I also have a period photo with my Dad wearing the 1st pattern eagle on his Tellermütze, and when I measure the proportions of the eagle relative to the cockade, you are absolutely right that 3.7 cm seems like the right size for these.

When Val said his eagle at the top of this thread was 6 cm wide I just figured my 5 cm eagle was smaller than his, but now I think he must have been mistaken and his is probably 5 cm too. (Val, can you check this?)

When I compare my 1st pattern visor cap eagle to yours, Eduardo, I can see they are from different manufacturers.

Anyway, that means the 5 cm eagle that I collected is the wrong size for my collection and I have to keep looking! Anyone want to trade?

Best regards,
---Norm

[JustinG]

Really wonderful discussions and quite informative. Thanks for all your hard work NormF to get this wonderful reference made. Eduardo, thanks for being the experienced resource to discuss/debate the different observations and make this a wonderful thread.

Great information gentlemen.

Regards,
JustinG

[valsente]

Hi Norm,
I've checked my eagle and you are right. It's 5 cm. wide and not 6 like I wrote. Sorry for the mistake.
Val

[km-spain]

Norm, your 1st model eagle looks really nice and is also not easy to find, I don't mind to have one like this. I also know the way of your collection trying to find all the badges related to your Dad uniforms, and I really would like to trade the smaller teller eagle with you, but this one is the only one I've seen in all my collector years, I bought it last October in Ciney's fair and I was absolutly happy when I see it and the seller didn't know what it was, so the price was really fair. I will keep my eyes open for one of these for you, but it will be not easy, good luck.

[km-spain]

Gold metal eagles ... I think that these are all model for headgear .. and breast.

[Norm F]

Gold metal eagles ... I think that these are all model for headgear .. and breast.

Nice group Eduardo! What are the pin systems on the backs of both your 1st pattern cap eagles?

Best regards,
---Norm

[km-spain]

Norm, both has two prongs on the wins.

[Bernhard]

Very interresting !
Thanks for this educational thread , gentlemen !

Regards

Bernhard

[Norm F]

Norm, both has two prongs on the wings.

Since the time of this thread I managed to get a 3.7 cm 1st pattern eagle for the Tellermütze. It's the same design as Eduardo's but interestingly, instead of two prongs, it has the traditional vertical long pin. On this example the pin has been twisted around, presumably to secure better to the cap and to deflect the sharp tip away from the wearer's head perhaps.

I wonder if there's any significance to the fact that going from the 1st pattern to the 2nd pattern the Kriegsmarine switched to a design with a bigger eagle and a smaller swastika?

I've included it in this comparison shot.

Best regards,
---Norm