Naval Aviator Visor Hat Wreath

[RonR]

Any information on this one?


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[JAndrew]

To me it looks like someone took a naval wreath and cocade and removed the cocade and sewed the other device on.

It looks close to the NSFK device which would have a swas. in the prop hub. But to me this looks more like a USAS (United States Air Service) pilot or pilot cadet collar device from WW I, some of which were French made.

JAndrew

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Ron

My first reaction would be to agree with JAndrew mainly because the wind/prop device appears to have been re-attached but had it still been clipped on...could be early/transitional air/sea rescue or KM recon planes or something along those lines (when the Luftwaffe didnt exist and germany didnt officially have any military planes as per Versailles Treaty). Not versed in this stuff but I know KM later had navy pilots with their own device (Wings crossed anchors and a swaz) of which this could have been an earlier version

Saw the attached one recently that looked odd. M36 gold BEAMTE eagle on KM wreath but after thinking about it a while it would be plausible as KM or Port authority firefighting service since the luftwaffe used the same eagle (M36 BEAMTE) in silver with regular luftwaffe cap wreath for their airfield fire fighting units

So who knows unless some picture or documentation shows up

Regards

JC

[JAndrew]

Here are a couple different examples of the U.S.A.S. wings. This motif was used from 1913 until it became the U.S.A.A.F. These are from Snyder's web site (sorry).
JAndrew

[amiklic1]

and here is the Imperial naval badge, from snyder's page:

[RonR]

Closer.......


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[amiklic1]

We can't see the reverse of the device on that cockade, but I somehow believe it was a kind of a pin or small badge, attached to the cockade.

[JAndrew]

I think Amiklic1 has put us on a better track as to the source of the central device.

However, I think Snyder's piece is a fake as well. It looks like a cheap casting to me but maybe the folks on the imperial forum could help with authenticity. I did come across these insignia for the Imperial German Air Service which (and I may be wrong here) predates WW I. I believe these insignia are 1903 or '08 style, which is probably here nor there as once sewn on a uniform, things tended to stay on a uniform.

Irregardless of the origin of the insignia in question I still don't feel that it is original to the wreath. I just don't believe that an officer's insignia, especially for something that was as prestigious as a pilot's insignia, would look so slap-dash. Too bad we can't see the back of the wings to see what was there.

JAndrew

[amiklic1]

I agree that the one I posted looks bad. Very cheap cast, it seems, but it helps to put the thread-starter into period ;-).

I also do not think it's originally sewn with the cockade, but maybe it was done by the owner at the end of the war or whatever. Guess we'll never know for sure ;-)

[JAndrew]

To me the issue is whether this is an example of an officially recognized insignia or is this something that someone made up? I am tending towards the later but I would love to be proven wrong.
JAndrew