Sudfront parade Greece 1943
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My new DAK helmets
Originally posted by NickG View Post
Is it my imagination or is the inside of the helmet of the soldier in front on the left light tan? From what can be seen the color is very light. I would expect it to be dark if not painted the same color inside. Also interesting to see the lack of chin straps.
I am becoming a believer in these. The photo evidence is really intriguing.Comment
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Another thing - on another thread there was a long discussion about Red Cross medic helmets and the lack of SS variants. Could the cross on the pictured helmet be evidence of an SS medic?
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It's upside down. I saw that but missed the discussion about it. This thread is very long.Comment
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Nick G
Well, I must say this is a very interesting discussion and hats off to Nick G for his tenacity in outstanding research.
The gentlemen who had the paint analysis performed. could you please post your results and what technology was employed.
I will be posting XRF results on some of these helmets in Q1.Comment
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Oh boy, you just started a whole new breed of fakerism there Scott!!Originally posted by NARVIK1940 View PostAnother thing - on another thread there was a long discussion about Red Cross medic helmets and the lack of SS variants. Could the cross on the pictured helmet be evidence of an SS medic?
I can see it now, these helmets being gobbled up and suddently now these have gone from $200 postwar refurbs for an Eygyptian military supply contract to mega rare factory refurbished Mediterranean SS Medic helmets for $20,000!
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? I'm just asking what that cross is on the helmet Doug.Comment
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Scott I am not making light of your post, just wondering out loud when the SS Mediterrenean Medic helmets start flooding the market.Originally posted by NARVIK1940 View Post
Saying, oh look NOW youve done it Scott.. having a humerous moment with you that is all my friend.
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Getting back on track, these units shown wearing these helmets in period photos fought in western theaters from mid to late 43 and on. Where are the vet bringbacks?
But I admit the dome stamps, all German wartime parts, paint color, and some period photos that seem to match, I can see a valid argument that these were a depot helmet for troops heading to Mediterrenean theaters via Czechoslovakia and probably or perhaps, for all service branches, but not exclusive to the SS (lack of insignia is my rationale).
A question to the older collectors who remember them flooding the market in the 80's, what was the "story" of them back then?
Just thinking out loud, playing devils advocate. If the questions have been asked already sorry, the thread is very long and I read it for the first time very fast, last night.Comment
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Originally posted by DougB View PostScott I am not making light of your post, just wondering out loud when the SS Mediterrenean Medic helmets start flooding the market.
Saying, oh look NOW youve done it Scott.. having a humerous moment with you that is all my friend.
No worries, buddy! Viewing on a phone the icons don't show for me. Still, I wonder about that cross.Comment
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Originally posted by DougB View Post
The SS Police Division did not fight in the west for very long. The longest period was in France in 1940. Basically after that, the fought in the east and against Partisans in the Mediterranean. There were very few opportunities where American servicemen would have had the chance to pick up items from this SS division. Even less chances to pick up tropical uniform items from them. Below is an overview of their fighting history from 1943. In 1940 they were fighting in France. In 1941-42 they were in Russia;
1943
In February 1943, the division saw action south of Lake Ladoga and was involved in a number of Soviet offensives when it was forced to withdraw to a new defensive line at Kolpino where it was successful in holding the Red Army, despite suffering heavy casualties.
It was at this point that units of the division were transferred to the west to retrain and upgrade to a Panzergrenadier Division; leaving a small Kampfgruppe (battlegroup) in the east and a Dutch Volunteer Legion, the Niederland, to make up the numbers. The Kampfgruppe was disbanded in May 1943, when the SS-Polizei-Panzergrenadier Division was ready for action.
The SS-Polizei Division did not return to the Soviet Union but was sent to Greece where it undertook anti-partisan operations in the northern part of the country. During this time, the Gestapo recorded that the division was involved in war crimes and atrocities against the civilian population of Klissura and the village of Distomo in what became known as the Distomo massacre.
1944
The division remained in Greece until August 1944 before being recalled to face the advancing Red Army at Belgrade. It was again involved in heavy fighting and suffered heavy losses. By September 1944, the division was reduced to about half its strength and forced back into Slovenia. During its service in Greece, its units were involved in the Distomo massacre, one of the worst atrocities ever committed against civilians during WWII.
1945
The much reduced SS-Polizei Division was moved north to Pomerania where it saw action attempting to hold the Soviets back. Hitler assigned it to Army Detachment Steiner for the relief of Berlin, but the troops lacked heavy weapons and did not engage as planned. Moved to Danzig, it was trapped by the Red Army and after a dire battle it was shipped across the Hela Peninsula to Swinemünde.
After a brief rest, what remained of the SS-Polizei Division fought its way across the Elbe river, surrendering to the Americans near Wittenberge-Lenzen.
What surrendered to the Americans in 1945 was only a fraction of the original division. Because they had been fighting in the east over the winter of 1944-45, none of those who surrendered were wearing tropical uniforms,
Thus the opportunity for such tropical uniform items in collections today from this division is remote.
The New Zealander's did encounter the odd former member of this division during the drive to Trieste in April 1945 and beyond up into Austria May 1945. In some case they were encountered before April 45 and even during 1944. This is because they had been attached to German Police, SS and Italian RSI units fighting partisans as a cadre for the formation and experienced NCO's. Some of these units were wearing a mix of Wehrmacht and SS tropical uniforms. These anti-partisan units fought in Italy, the north of Italy and countries above Italy such as Croatia. Again the opportunity for veterans to get uniform items from this SS Police division and other SS divisions in tropical uniform was not high,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 12-14-2014, 04:55 PM.Comment
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Looks more like a cross made with fountain pen like we see in albums to point out hey this is me etc ..Originally posted by NARVIK1940 View Post
Jos.Comment
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Good points! Here some more images of occupation troops in Greece, another vehicle parade. Not sure what unit...Polizei Division?
Anyway if gives a good impression what Sudfront troops looked like (as opposed to DAK campaign images, these are rare)Comment
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Greece 1943 or 1944. Does not prove anything but just to give an idea of the theatre...
No fox hole fighting, no front line actions, just occupation duty to include such vehicle parades to impress the civilians
with their might! and anti partisan operations of course...which were limited actions, unlike DAK and other theatres...
where battle damaged helmets were picked up by the allies... Duty in Greece was considered a paradise opportunity, R & R!Last edited by NickG; 12-14-2014, 05:21 PM.Comment
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