Decal removal during war?

[Dierk Gebhardt]

Were the soldiers ordered to remove decals from helmets?
SS runes?

[Tom Kibler]

Yes. They were ordered removed. Subsequent helmets were manufactured and never had decals applied (those are rare finds today....).

Some units complied, others did not.

[SSamir]

Hi Tom,

This was recently discussed over at WRF. Is there any period documentation supporting that the rune decal be removed as per orders? I was told there weren't any (at least not to their knowledge). It's a mystery to me that I would love to solve.

Regards
Samir

[Tom Kibler]

Hi Tom,

This was recently discussed over at WRF. Is there any period documentation supporting that the rune decal be removed as per orders? I was told there weren't any (at least not to their knowledge). It's a mystery to me that I would love to solve.

Regards
Samir

I have no knowledge of "orders". Trying to work through the question logically, the decals went from double decals, to orders (I believe mentioned in Baer's book) for the removal of the National Shield.

Then, seeing so many period removed decals (like the full basket chicken wire I dug out of the woodwork in 1997). That M42 originally had a SD Heer and it can easily be seen that it was removed prior to the addition of the wire.

Then move to the "No-Decal" helmets found at wars end. (Specifically, a dear friend - now lost to time, told me he NEVER saw a German helmet with a decal during his time over seas. He arrived in January 1945).

As a result of the initial order to remove the National Shield and based upon the evidence at hand, it was "commonly agreed" that orders had been given to remove decals.

I wish I had more information to provide. Obviously units didn't comply - or there would be almost no helmets with decals. The collector world may never know......

[Dierk Gebhardt]

I read that the early "shield" was ordered removed, that's it.

And a quote from German-Helmets.com:
"Helmets manufactured after 1 November 1943 did not have the runic decal applied. However, most helmets already issued tended to retain their decals."

From "warrelics.eu" forum:
"Helmets were produced without decal but the official text doesn't say that soldiers who were issued an helmet with decal had to remove it. It is a myth. Soldiers had to remove the tricolour shield when it was discontinued, but nothing say that they had to remove the Hoheitsabzeichen or runic decal. When they did it, it was a personal initiative."

[bodes]

1940 regulations called for the removal of any decal with the color red in it.....This was done for purposes of camouflage.....Many were painted over, as their removal could be quite difficult.....1942 regulation called for the discontinuation/removal of all helmet transfers(decals)......These regulations however were not strictly enforced, as evidenced by all the helmets left with decals on.....Bodes

[SSamir]

Hi Tom,

Always wondered if it was an order and was also wondering if there were any known documentation. We were actually discussing my SS helmet (pictured below). We all agreed the decal could have been removed due to camo purposes by the soldier, post war denazification, etc. But like you said "The collector world may never know". Always a pleasure to hear your thoughts Tom.

Regards
Samir

[Dierk Gebhardt]

I've seen plenty of late war photo's showing a group of Waffen SS with decals, no decals, and some partly scratched off.

[SSamir]

1942 regulation called for the discontinuation/removal of all helmet transfers(decals)......These regulations however were not strictly enforced, as evidenced by all the helmets left with decals on.....Bodes

Hi Bodes,

That was my original thoughts, but I could have been wrong. Would be very interesting to see period documentation, but it is most likely not gonna happen.

Regards
Samir

[Schwerpunkt]

1940 regulations called for the removal of any decal with the color red in it.....This was done for purposes of camouflage.....Many were painted over, as their removal could be quite difficult.....1942 regulation called for the discontinuation/removal of all helmet transfers(decals)......These regulations however were not strictly enforced, as evidenced by all the helmets left with decals on.....Bodes

I have the date of decal removal as 1943 (13.10.1943 ref Luwig Baer - Kelly Hicks SS Steel p 237) and the order purely speaks of decals with swastika's and wehrmacht only hence why Polizei and SS continued to be decalled longer than wehrmacht helmets.

Especially the 1940 order to drop the tricolors was not enforced as we can see how many double decal helmets have survived.

[Tom Kibler]

Especially the 1940 order to drop the tricolors was not enforced as we can see how many double decal helmets have survived.

I understood this order to apply ONLY to those soldiers in an active, combat zone. This would explain why so many helmets in the Normandy area still retained their National Shields. A fantastic DD Luft I purchased from the vet, in which he told me the story that on D-Day (+3 I believe), his outfit over ran a German supply depot. In the center of the small village was a pile of helmets to be refitted. At the bottom was the DD Luft (Q68 if I remember correctly).

Again, I have no documented proof, just an educated guess based on experience, veteran testimony and deductive reasoning.

[Dierk Gebhardt]

Which edition is the "SS Steel" book?

[bodes]

I have the date of decal removal as 1943 (13.10.1943 ref Luwig Baer - Kelly Hicks SS Steel p 237) and the order purely speaks of decals with swastika's and wehrmacht only hence why Polizei and SS continued to be decalled longer than wehrmacht helmets.

Especially the 1940 order to drop the tricolors was not enforced as we can see how many double decal helmets have survived.

That sounds right (1943).....I was typing so fast, my brain just couldn't catch up.....Bodes

[randywrap]

Period photo ....came up on another forum recently.

[bodes]

Period photo ....came up on another forum recently.

Is that guy Polizei?.....The decal on his helmet looks like it has a border.....Bodes