M40 ss with rune chinstrap

[inimicus]

just looked at an SS m40 at an antique shop. it's sur-named inside in paint ('sonn') , BUT the major - and hopefully related - thing is it's got a no-circle rune-stamp (very clear) with 'VT' (clear) and 'stubaf' or 'stubf' (hard to read) -

the short piece (NOT the s'strap end) is marked w/the leathermaker's name (hard to read) and 'berlin' - no date.

this c'strap is narrower than some I've seen and it looks like on both sets of stamps there may've been more data but the stamp was too wide and the rest was cut off.

I know t/b extremely wary of rune-stamped leather but this helm has all-over wear. this is a well-used and worn m40. and yet I'd think 'VT' on an m40 is eyebrow-raising.

decal is nico-tinged and I think ET type. liner and band reassuringly tight, rivets consistent dark gray paint like the shell.

Q.: do you know of any authentic chinstrap markings like this? and if not is it likely the man had a set of his own stamps for his leather goods? seems unlikely b/c the stamp looks like from a professional quality leather 'die-stamp.'

plus anyone have a 'sonn' in their DAL?

the guy didn't want me making pix but we've dealt before and ev'thing he sells is guaranteed $ back. and this thing really looks the business as the brits say.

quick reax especially much appreciated - thanks!



dw

[SSamir]

I doubt if it reads VT, you sure it wasn't VA? An M35 shell n not M40? Best way to try and help you is if you can provide some photos, you might just have yourself a gem!

[DougB]

Without photos my guess is its one of the many humped up stamped straps that circulates. Very few samples SS marked straps exist. Gustav Reinhart Berlin 1937 VA SS 1937 is the earliest I have seen and the most common (although very rare) is Carl Tesch Berlin 1938 VA SS 1938. I have seen SS VA marked straps on SS Q helmets dating to 37 and 38. That said I have an EF M35 SS reissue with an SS VA Carl Tesch strap marked VA SS 1939 (? cant remember the exact date, perhaps a 38?) as well, probably taken from another helmet when reissud I am guessing.

[inimicus]

carl tesch berlin - I'm sure that's it! and yes maybe it's 'VA' but I thought the ss-marked ones used the simple 'SS' NOT runics?
and ssamir unless its a zinc liner band in an m35 shell (i didn't look close at the vent holes) it's pretty clearly an m40 according to the batch #s - in the mid-4000s. its an se66 shell.
what about the 'stubf.'??

thanks again, d

[DougB]

The SS is not runic but simple S and they are VA SS 193X marked exactly like that.
Being an SE SS M40 I have immediate concerns. Please post photos.
Stubf is Sturmbahnfuhrer I would imagine.

[inimicus]

thanks a lot, doug; noted! will try for pix.

just let me be clear here, fellas: NO original pre-45 ss chinstraps employed the runes, only the upper-case SS ?

and, you'd think a faker savvy enuf to stamp the short strap with (perhaps) the only known ss c'strap producer would be able to get the rest of the markings right?

btw - anyone have an example of a fake chinstrap with the RUNES or otherwise for me to check against, or one containing a rank abbreviation? could be helpful to this thread.

cheers, dw


runics

The SS is not runic but simple S and they are VA SS 193X marked exactly like that.
Being an SE SS M40 I have immediate concerns. Please post photos.
Stubf is Sturmbahnfuhrer I would imagine.