Mr Spock/ss Adolf Hitler

[jamesmccann]

BEEM ME UP SCOTTY/Guys i watched an episode of star trek where spock (live long and fester) was dressed as a liebstandarte ss man complete with 35 pattern dd helmet.(he looked eerie).Promise no more attempts at jokes. Im sure your like me ,and your going over german helmets with a fine tooth comb to determine if their repro or genuine wartime helmets when in movies ect. The movie Stalingrad ,had loads of post war helmets some with no vents or rivets.Cross of Iron helmets seemed to be spot on ,and i wonder if they were war time issue.Any Russian war films should have genuine items as their film industry is known to have thousands of items kept from the war. what are you r opinions on other movies?.best wishes James/Ireland.

[Theodor]

Well, I recently watched Stalingrad and indeed the helmets were 2 types: postwar with no rivets and Czechoslovakia postwar reissue with the huge rounded rivets. Did not spot even a single one with correct rivets.

[SgtB]

'von Ryan's Express' is one of my favorite war movies, but the one
thing that nearly ruins it for me, is that the helmet that Sinatra
wears is definitely not a WWII stalhelm. Anybody know what type it is?

[herrgeezer]

'von Ryan's Express' is one of my favorite war movies, but the one
thing that nearly ruins it for me, is that the helmet that Sinatra
wears is definitely not a WWII stalhelm. Anybody know what type it is?

My guess would be West German Border Guards.

[Blindpew]

Hi All,
Top Star Trek episode that one, where they are transported back to the 20th centuary after Hitler had WON the war........I'm sure it one loads of awards.
Cross of Iron, haven't seen for a long time in fact since I started the Helmet collecting -(I must rewatch). I expect Mr Coburn probably wanted/demanded a helmet with the most COMFORTABLE liner, and not some scabby old thing! I have visions of costume guys running frantically around the "extras" looking for one that Mr Coburn would wear so they could do some filming.I just imagine that all "Stars" do this sort of thing.....This would mean that MAYBE in the background, there is some $2 a day ?"extra", wearing the best and outstanding helmet in the film........must look VERY closely when I re-watch.
V R E, -again I must re-watch.....
The last film I bought/viewed, is a film mentioned in a thread a while back, (I haven't looked for it)........Come and See, -Good film best viewed in Russian with subtitles,(The English dubbing is ).
The helmets in there totally look okay to me,the uniforms also, although there is a interview with the director who says they had to "dull" the uniforms a little - However I believe that he is referring to the RUSSIAN uniforms, the German stuff looks pretty bang-on to me.It's hard going cause it's not "Hollywood", it's a "reality" film.


James I wanted to ask a favour, I find your black script very difficult to read on my screen, any chance you could change it? Or do I need to change my formatting? My main pages are viewed in Ma'roon,-(yes next time I'm in Belfast I'll get you a pint! .

C

[Peter_Suciu]

Sgt. Steiner never wears a helmet in Cross of Iron. He is wearing a cap throughout the movie. I think Richard Burton wore a helmet in the sequel. Maybe James Corburn said no to the helmet.

I'm 100% positive the helmet that Spock wore in Star Trek to be a fake. Hollywood never actually acquired much in the way of real uniforms. For one thing I bet the real paint and decals wouldn't look right on camera. Combat for example had over sized decals that were way too big but you could actually see them in most of the shots.

And one more thing about Cross of Iron...the Russian helmets are totally wrong. They are Bulgarian, which resemble Italian M33, which sort of resemble the Soviet SSh-40 but have visible rivets.

[Blindpew]

Sgt. Steiner never wears a helmet in Cross of Iron. He is wearing a cap throughout the movie.

I take everything back I imagined about Mr Coburn!

[Brian C.]

I remember Spock had to wear the helmet so they wouldn't see his Vulcan ears.

Kirk was an Allgemeine officer in that one wasn't he?

[darryl-P]

Brian,

To be technically correct, Kirk was dressed as an SS-VT officer. Had he been an Allgemeine-SS officer he would have had a Standarte number in his right collar tab.

And of course, the decals on Spock's helmet (which should be feldgrau) are reversed.

[Glenn McInnes]

From what I remember Kirk was wearing a AH cufftitle on the jacket. Would a SS runic tab not be correct for this??


Glenn

[Peter_Suciu]

From what I remember Kirk was wearing a AH cufftitle on the jacket. Would a SS runic tab not be correct for this??

This wasn't actually on Earth but on some other planet, so who is to say what is correct. All the Nazi influence was brought by the historician/advisor to the planet--why do I remember this?

Maybe the advisor had been a reeanactor and brought a few catalogs with him!

[Brian C.]

Peter, this explanation from a Star Trek site should clear up why it was a Nazi state:

When the Enterprise approaches the inner planet Ekos to investigate the cessation of communication with researcher John Gill, it is attacked with a rocket carrying a nuclear weapon. This is puzzling as well as dangerous, since neither the outer planet Zeon nor the inner planet Ekos is technologically advanced enough to possess rockets or nuclear warheads. The Enterprise retreats to maximum orbital distance and Kirk and Spock beam down (after having position-broadcasting transponders surgically implanted in case of mishaps).


Kirk and Spock discover that a Nazi movement has swept the planet, complete with genocide of the "Zeon pigs" residing on Ekos. They view a public newscast in which the Iron Cross second class is presented to Daras, hero of the Fatherland. Kirk and Spock are also shocked to learn that Gill appears to be the leader of the planet's Nazi movement.

When they are approached and questioned by a Nazi Lieutenant, they overpower him and Spock steals his uniform. Spock then pretends that Kirk is a Zeon he has captured and nerve pinches a Gestapo commander who wishes to take charge of Kirk. This provides Kirk's uniform, and Spock compliments Kirk by telling him "You should make a very convincing Nazi."

As Kirk and Spock make their way to see the Führer, they are confronted by a Nazi S.S. Major after Spock neglects to salute him. The Major becomes suspicious, and Spock is exposed when he is forced to remove his helmet. Spock and Kirk are then whipped in the process of being interrogated. Nazi Party Chairman Eneg interrupts the "questioning" and tells the Nazis to lock up Kirk and Spock for an hour (in contradiction to standing orders to execute prisoners after interrogation).

In prison, Kirk and Spock speak to an imprisoned Zeon (whom they had previously encountered being beaten on the street by the Nazis) and find that the Nazi movement began several years ago (corresponding with the arrival of Gill). They escape from prison by making a primitive laser from the rubindium crystals in their transponders using their cell's incandescent bulb as the excitation source (not quite a flash arc and ruby crystal, but close enough in a pinch). Spock hides outside the cell and then nerve pinches the guard when Kirk summons him under the pretext of wanting to talk. Kirk and Spock also allow the Zeon prisoner to tag along. Kirk and Spock penetrate Nazi headquarters with the help of Secretary Daras and Chairman Eneg. They discover that Gill is only the drugged puppet of deputy Führer Melakon after he gives a stilted speech unleashing the final assault on Zeon. McCoy is beamed down and manages to barely overcome the drug. Gill tells them that he started the Nazi movement to unify the planet (because it was the "most efficient system Earth ever knew"). With an extra hypo from Kirk, Gill manages to call back the invasion fleet and denounce Melakon as a traitor. Melakon grabs a machine-gun and kills Gill, only to be shot himself. Chairman Eneg takes over and stops the killing, declaring that "it is time to live the way our Fürher intended. Kirk and company then return to the Enterprise in peace.

[darryl-P]

From what I remember Kirk was wearing a AH cufftitle on the jacket. Would a SS runic tab not be correct for this??


Glenn

Glenn,

Yes, the runes in the collar tab with the AH cufftitle is correct. My point was that it is not Allgemeine-SS.

Cheers,

[Peter_Suciu]

Peter, this explanation from a Star Trek site should clear up why it was a Nazi state:

I remembered all that...I was actually pointing out that since Gill only took the influence he should hardly be expected to get every detail right.

Here would be Gill's check list:
1) take a one-party system based on aggression and prejudice and use this as a model for the government
2) make sure to get every uniform, weapon and rank correct--despite the fact that these might be in a language from another planet with no ties to this alien world
3) make himself leader because it is really easy to stress racial purity while in fact being an outsider from another world
4) include organizations like the Gestapo...well, because you can't have a Nazi planet without the SS and Gestapo

I guess the idea that a bunch of neo-Nazis went into space and settled their own planet wouldn't fly in the 1960s, but the idea that a historian would try to recreate this system just seems a little strange. It makes for a good campy episode of Star Trek and it is very amusing.

[jamesmccann]

Brian C

Thanks for replies guys,its interesting to watch if they are fake or not!Brian c that small pic of german soildier in your reply is there any chance of a larger pic of that ,thankyou ,and good luck from Ireland guys.JAMES LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!!!!!!!