Interesting Helmet Insignia

[RonR]

,,,,

[RonR]

But, just as Chris has indicated, never have seen a period photo of a combat helmet with this type of symbol.

Best regards,

[RonR]

In the most recent issue of the Military Trader......

I guess one should never say never but may be a parade helmet........



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[S. McKibben]

Great find. Guess our helmets do have a leg to stand on. Unless of course some one drew it on the picture,lol.

[CWP]

I would assume that is a civil helmet or even M16 type with one of the early Polizei decals as shown by Ron. It seems he is wearing a police uniform. Certainly an early pre-war picture and almost definitely not any kind of military combat helmet.

[Chad1]

unusual insignia

Here is one of my favorite helmets, captured in Tunisia, named and researched to a member of the 10th Pz. Division, and if you look closely where decal was covered by the camo paint, the faint remnant of some kind of Swastika. The other side showes the same.

[Chad1]

2

It looks almost like it was applied over the camo, then removed later leaving only a faint ghost.

[TheCleaner]

Very interesting...

[CWP]

Probably the swastikas on that camo were added by someone after the war and then collector removed, I would think?

[the rover]

Probably the swastikas on that camo were added by someone after the war and then collector removed, I would think?

Chris, you have no more idea than anyone else on the planet as to whether any soldiers in combat painted or stencilled ad-hoc swastikas onto their helmets during world war two. Whether they were volksturm or foreign legion volunteers or just eager Hitler youth, or indeed if these emblems that we see today are all affected by veterans and bikers.
Simply put you are merely offering speculation ............. and it has to STOP.



Nick.

[Chad1]

Unusual swaz

In comparing the relative sizes of the strange swastika on my helmet to the first one pictured in this thread, they look about the same compared to the vent hole.

[Monroe]

I photographed my helmets and measured the swastikas and can post that information later tonight, along with my opinion about when they might have been added to my helmets.

Postwar biker art is the least likely circumstance...IMO.

Mike

[whatthecrunchyo]

I'm sure that a lot of these helmets had swazis added by "bikers, artists, whatever," BUT, the evidence is almost overwhelming that a lot of these were not fictious helmets and/or could have been made during the war. Yeah, I got it...err on the side of caution, but at the same time I think this debate deserves a little more prying and recognition as something legitimate. No telling how many helmets like these could have been destroyed by collectors who repainted them because they were "1960s creations."

[CWP]

"the evidence is almost overwhelming"... What evidence, exactly?

[DougB]

I'm sure that a lot of these helmets had swazis added by "bikers, artists, whatever," BUT, the evidence is almost overwhelming that a lot of these were not fictious helmets and/or could have been made during the war. Yeah, I got it...err on the side of caution, but at the same time I think this debate deserves a little more prying and recognition as something legitimate. No telling how many helmets like these could have been destroyed by collectors who repainted them because they were "1960s creations."

With all due respect I am not sure what overwhelming evidence your seeing of period hand painted swastikas on combat helmets?

You have to ask yourself, what was the need for that? Other than graffiti? Graffiti caused by a capturing soldier not one who was expected to wear the helmet in defence of his country. A foreign volunteer was typically in the SS, with no or SS decals. Hitler Youth were not issued combat helmets as a matter of course, the HJ division was also in the SS, and the HJ were many among flak helpers wearing LS helmets or other non combat helmets, none Ive seen adorned with painted swastika's. The officers would not take kindly to individuals putting what is tantamount to graffiti on their helmets. That strikes me as somewhat undisciplined. My HJ friend has said how the officers demanded the strictest of discipline from them. Swastikas render a camo ineffective as a swastika is a shape the eye can recognize instantly. The branches of the armed forces all had swastikas in their helmet insignia already.

Volksturm photos abound and I don't recall seeing one with a large swastika painted on a helmet? And if so, they were not a state organization like the police or SS but a combat arm in a period where no decal helmets were the norm. The old greying men of the Volksturm don't strike me as such hard core nazi's in their ill fitting uniforms and panzerfausts that they would be going out and hand painting large "shoot me here" swastika's on the forehead of their helmets. They knew the jig was up. Being captured with a large white swastika hand painted across their forehead was probably a good invitation to the business end of a Thompson or Lee Enfield being shoved up their nose and their nasal cavity aerated.

The mobile swastika decal seen on very early SS, Police and fire helmets in both small and large sizes are typically what might one would expect to see, possibly a hand rendered one on a very early regime helmet.

I think erring with caution is extremely good advice on helmets with swastika's painted on them, especially with M35/40/42s. One can certainly look "old" but that hardly makes it period. It's a slippery slope to start on if you ask me, we will soon be inundated with helmets and swastikas painted on them with Volksturm and HJ and Foreign Volunteer "provenance" otherwise.

Just my thoughts on the matter
Cheers
Doug