Heer Normandy Camo helmet M42

[Glenn McInnes]

I agree with the comments posted by the other members. The wear and scratches to the paint looks artificial or intentional. If it were offered to me I would most certainly pass on it. Save your money for a one look original you will be much happier in the end


Glenn

[Luftm40]

Irv, I've said about all I can about your helmet w/ out handling it, and I think the others have too. Collecting sometimes just comes down to preferences and personal standards.....

[Perry Floyd]

Thanks Andy,
I feel it is good to discuss this! I think I have learnt a lot from what has been said. If we took everything at face value we would not progress.
I agree that it probably has been 'Aggressively cleaned', but I still don't see how that would say it is a fake? I know you said that it sent up a red flag but I must admit I like what I collect to be clean. If I buy a dirty fighting knife the first thing I would do is clean it. Now some collectors like their collection to be 'as found' state. May be the collector who had this helmet before me liked his helmets clean? But we should be looking a bit deeper than whether the paint has or hasn't get grime on it. Looking at the fake helmets on the site Robb gave me there isn't a helmet on there that can come any where near this helmet. On the site he actualy says that it is hard to produce a good Normandy camo! This one has an original liner that hasn't been out of the helmet. The colours match the other Camo helmet I have perfectly, the only difference is the fact that it is clean and that it hasn't got rust on the top??
Like you say 'I'm the one who has to be happy with it' but that doesn't get away with the fact that I need to learn. I'm sure that if I had posted this helmet with a story that I had got it from a vet who picked it up on D-Day and brought it home, I would have had loads of people saying it was a great find. Well I'm not going to lie and tell you a dodgy story. All I want is some reasoned arguments why it isn't right. Just saying 'I don't like the look of that' isn't going to cut the mustard. I'm glad that you are still in on this Andy because all the other experts seem to have gone! Challenge is good! It makes you think. Like someone once said to me "Familliarity breeds contempt". Don't get set in your ways, open your mind and take on board new ideas and knowledge.
Irv

Irv no one is gone, like me they have been down this road a hundred times. A collector that does not know what he's looking at telling everyone that does why his reproduction is original.
It's this type of collector that creates such a big demand for these reproductions. They convince themselves they have an original, and in their world it will be.
This is why most of the senior knowledgable collectors dont bother anymore..

[william r match]

PF

[KoCook]

All I want is some reasoned arguments why it isn't right. Just saying 'I don't like the look of that' isn't going to cut the mustard. I'm glad that you are still in on this Andy because all the other experts seem to have gone! Irv

Since I offered an opinion earlier I will respond: I didn't like the scratches on top
but to be honest, I am unsure with the camo. (I would have also posted this
helmet on this forum to receive feedback) If the forum members said they had
issues with it I would take their advice, since they are much more experienced
then myself and they have no reason to lie. Its very hard hearing them tell
you take something is wrong, believe me, I've been there and so have many others.
However, I want the truth and thats the reason in the first place to ask opinions.

[mech91]

There is nothing worse than to spend good hard earned money on a helmet and make it a centerpiece of your collection just to find out it's a piece of crap! Been there and done that. Listen up. I know you want to believe that the helmet is legit, and there is always a chance that it is, but face it, this is a hobby of collecting a finite number of helmets and I firmly believe that most of your camo helmets are fraudulent. Spending 4-6 hours painting a converted Czech police helmet can net you $500.00+.

[britpc]

Hi Perry,
Thanks for coming back. I have not convinced myself that this lid is right. But I need to know exactly why it's wrong, if you see what I mean. I can let this one go but I still need to know what to look for on the next one. If you have seen any of my replies to forum members about FS fighting knives, I will give them a detailed reason why a knife is right or wrong. So they are armed with the correct knowledge the next time they go to a Militaria Fair. I know all the members are on my side, but some may need to remember that a lot of the helmets in the States were brought back from the war......The rest were left where the war took place Europe. The variaty of helmets seen over here will be greater.
I think I have done this to death so thanks to everyone who took part. I do appreciate your opinions what every they are.
Irv

Irv no one is gone, like me they have been down this road a hundred times. A collector that does not know what he's looking at telling everyone that does why his reproduction is original.
It's this type of collector that creates such a big demand for these reproductions. They convince themselves they have an original, and in their world it will be.
This is why most of the senior knowledgable collectors dont bother anymore..

[Perry Floyd]

First off collecting fighting knifes has nothing to do with collecting WWII German camo helmets, you need to drop that. That's like comparing apples to something from outer space.

You will not see what we're seeing untill you handle many original unmessed with camo helmets, and that's no guarantee as I know collectors that have collected helmets 25 years and would still buy both the helmets in this thread. Your going to have to compare yours with originals, notice the wear patterns,lack of honesty, notice why your inside looks terrible. Find the thread Normandy June 6 and look at some originals untill you can get your hands on a few.

[britpc]

Perry,
I realise that Fighting knives are a totally different ball game. I am using it as an analogy. It sounds like you have got the knock with me. All I am doing is challenging the reasons behind your comments.
I read a thread about a FJ helmet that one of the forum bought from someone. It had belonged to the father who had died and the son was selling it. It had a camo cover on it when found. When the cover was taken off it had a cammo paint job that was perfect. The helmet was original so no one questioned it?? Why is this any different?? Who's to say that this didn't sit with a helmet cover on for 60 years?? I know this is only supposition. But no one would have questioned the paint job what ever it had been like! Because of the story.
For Mach91 to state 'I firmly believe that most of your camo helmets are fraudulent' is unbelievable
The automatic slating of a camo helmet from anywhere over the pond can't be right. This goes back to my comment about having an open mind.
Perry, you mentioned about handling real camo helmets. Who says they are real ones? I have seen a lot from France/Belgium/Holland and have been told that they were right by the collector who had them. These are from large European collections. The thread about the a FJ helmet with the funny paint job that got a bad write up until the guy gave the full story just proves my point. If he didn't have the story to go with it he would have binned it as a fake!
Any way, we are going round and round in circles. You say it's wrong, I don't know either way
Don't take any of this personally, it is just a healthy discussion about something we all love. If no body chellenged opinions where would we be.
Irv

First off collecting fighting knifes has nothing to do with collecting WWII German camo helmets, you need to drop that. That's like comparing apples to something from outer space.

You will not see what we're seeing untill you handle many original unmessed with camo helmets, and that's no guarantee as I know collectors that have collected helmets 25 years and would still buy both the helmets in this thread. Your going to have to compare yours with originals, notice the wear patterns,lack of honesty, notice why your inside looks terrible. Find the thread Normandy June 6 and look at some originals untill you can get your hands on a few.

[Perry Floyd]

I own camo helmets that look like they have been under a cover 60 years, I've handled them in other collections. They're extrememely rare to find in that condition, but exist..yours is not be one of them, sorry. That's just wishfull thinking..

You cannot use fighting knifes as a analogy, like I said your comparing apples to something from outer space. You dont even clean helmets.


If yours came with a D-day pick up story my opinion would be the same. If you want to post the comments I made about the funny camo paint job with a vet family story please do. Camo helmets is my strongest area. The helmet has to be real before the story can. A story will not sway me when the helmet is bad.

I cannot speak for the helmets in collections you have seen. They may be bad, I dont know. Most Europeans have a uphill battle collecting helmets and alot of times the collection will reflect this. A collection reflects the collectors knowledge and his knowledge comes from the way he was schooled on what he collects..

I dont have a knock with you, it's all about the helmet.

[britpc]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[william r match]

Irv,


Europe & especially England is amassed with post war camos,SS decals etc. etc. unless you are on top of your game, best advice is to look towards the USA & purchase from a reputable source.

No slight on us Brits but a glaring reality.

In any case a strong pound is in your favour at the moment!

Billy

[Willi Z.]

Irv, you just don't get it. I commend all who have been taking the time trying to explain. This is not a "healthy" discussion, it has been one of the most mind numbing ones I have ever seen. Sorry.........it's the truth.

[britpc]

Willi,
I'm sorry but when did this get personal If you are 'An expert' in your field you shouldn't be scared of peolple challenging what you say. As for 'mind numbing', YOU kept on reading it!?!
Irv

Irv, you just don't get it. I commend all who have been taking the time trying to explain. This is not a "healthy" discussion, it has been one of the most mind numbing ones I have ever seen. Sorry.........it's the truth.

[Jean-Loup]

Irv, I think you are suffering from "post rip off syndrom". We have all been there. You want to think your piece is good, and want everyone who thinks the opposite to go into lenghly details about why it is not good. You just lost some money; for all the rest of us today is just anothere day, and we are not going to make an affaire about another camo helmet. Let a few days go by, and you will see the affaire more clearly.
The guys that gave you advice know what they are talking about. The wear paterns on your helmet are un natural; the leather is strange. Just that should be enaugh to make you walk away. Do you want to convince yourself that maybe a german soldier in 1944 had fun making strange wear paterns? Fine; but dont expect people to be thinking the same thing; and dont expect them to go on and on in their explanations. There are threads about bad camo helmets all the time; and people are sick of repeating the same things over and over to people that dont want to hear. Dont ake this as an insult; its normal to not want to hear after you just spent several hundred dollars.
JL