Heer Normandy Camo helmet M42

[ROBB]

Irv try this ,I will call you later ,Rob.

http://www.thehelmetpainter.com

[arjan]

Irv try this ,I will call you later ,Rob.

http://www.thehelmetpainter.com

I know this guy was discussed befor and I believe he marked his helmet in some way (maybe inside) Is this correct or is this just a dream.

Arjan

[Luftm40]

The first thing I look at on a helmet is the interior. I have found that usually where there is smoke, there is fire. The interior of your camo looks very unnatural from the pics...not a good sign to me, and the liner is what turned me off more than the paint. As I said before, at a minimum it has been heavily cleaned. From the pics though, the leather looks almost dyed, or perhaps treated w/ polish of some kind...the color is really funky. On the exterior, to echo what others have said, the wear looks contrived and also the coloring, particularly the maroon patches, look a bit off from original examples I have seen. The tri color camos are surprisingly consistent wrt this. I'm sure variations exist though, and perhaps it is just the lighting. Its hard to explain, but an original camo will just scream "original"...to the point where you don't need to analyze or rationalize it... I will say that I don't think this is one of the "buffed" fake helmets that you see coming from the UK on Ebay. I've been following those for a long time, and they have different characteristics than this one...just my thoughts.

[britpc]

Thanks Robb,
Ring me and we will sort out a time. Also have you noticed that the fakers don't copy the colours well?? I have an another Normandy camo which was OK'ed that has the exact same green as the one on this thread!
Irv

Irv try this ,I will call you later ,Rob.

http://www.thehelmetpainter.com

[ROBB]

Heres a nice pic I nicked of GD site ,notice the differnt coloured liners ,Rob

[Luftm40]

yes...original liners can vary in color depending on use, etc etc but anyone who has handled or seen a number of 100% original helmets will know what I mean when I say the liner in question looks unnatural...

[britpc]

Andy,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
The liner is not dry and there is no smell of any treatment, polish etc. It is still supple. The colour is consistant through out the leather. Checkout the picture Robb has just posted. This shows a number of different colours to liners, and that was at the end of the war! I have no doubt that this helmet has been cleaned. But does that mean it's a fake?? I think the paint looks bright because it has been cleaned. Looking at my other Normandy camo (which was bought from the e-stand) the green is the same, the tan/ochre is the same and the brown is the same! The difference is that my other camo has a smooth surface with rust and this M42 has the textured surface. Where the sawdust is in the paint it has worn down to the tan so you get the high lights (see pictures). I think the trouble is that it looks too fresh! But if you were faking this wouldn't you make sure it looked 60 years old??
Irv

The first thing I look at on a helmet is the interior. I have found that usually where there is smoke, there is fire. The interior of your camo looks very unnatural from the pics...not a good sign to me, and the liner is what turned me off more than the paint. As I said before, at a minimum it has been heavily cleaned. From the pics though, the leather looks almost dyed, or perhaps treated w/ polish of some kind...the color is really funky. On the exterior, to echo what others have said, the wear looks contrived and also the coloring, particularly the maroon patches, look a bit off from original examples I have seen. The tri color camos are surprisingly consistent wrt this. I'm sure variations exist though, and perhaps it is just the lighting. Its hard to explain, but an original camo will just scream "original"...to the point where you don't need to analyze or rationalize it... I will say that I don't think this is one of the "buffed" fake helmets that you see coming from the UK on Ebay. I've been following those for a long time, and they have different characteristics than this one...just my thoughts.

[ROBB]

I have to agree wth Irv ,the liner shape has taken on the shape of the wearers head ,the colour looks normal ,the liner itself looks nice and tight . I dont see a problem here ,Rob.

[kennethc]

Only if I have a time-machine...

ken

[Luftm40]

If you read my previous posts, I stated that the helmet looked as if it had been aggressively cleaned, and that clouded the authentication somewhat. I'm not saying the liner is fake, just that it looks unnatural (for whatever reason), and on a rare helmet that is a red flag in my book. At the end of the day, you are the only one who has to be happy w/ it.

[william r match]

Irv,


Digest what Willi has printed & others of his ilk. It is for you to decide whose opinions you value.

Take ownership, use the search forum on this & GDF, it is an excellent facility. You will find all you ask for in that direction, good tri-camos & bad ones, educated comments & not so educated comments. Well worth the effort Irv.!

Good luck.

Billy

[britpc]

Thanks Andy,
I feel it is good to discuss this! I think I have learnt a lot from what has been said. If we took everything at face value we would not progress.
I agree that it probably has been 'Aggressively cleaned', but I still don't see how that would say it is a fake? I know you said that it sent up a red flag but I must admit I like what I collect to be clean. If I buy a dirty fighting knife the first thing I would do is clean it. Now some collectors like their collection to be 'as found' state. May be the collector who had this helmet before me liked his helmets clean? But we should be looking a bit deeper than whether the paint has or hasn't get grime on it. Looking at the fake helmets on the site Robb gave me there isn't a helmet on there that can come any where near this helmet. On the site he actualy says that it is hard to produce a good Normandy camo! This one has an original liner that hasn't been out of the helmet. The colours match the other Camo helmet I have perfectly, the only difference is the fact that it is clean and that it hasn't got rust on the top??
Like you say 'I'm the one who has to be happy with it' but that doesn't get away with the fact that I need to learn. I'm sure that if I had posted this helmet with a story that I had got it from a vet who picked it up on D-Day and brought it home, I would have had loads of people saying it was a great find. Well I'm not going to lie and tell you a dodgy story. All I want is some reasoned arguments why it isn't right. Just saying 'I don't like the look of that' isn't going to cut the mustard. I'm glad that you are still in on this Andy because all the other experts seem to have gone! Challenge is good! It makes you think. Like someone once said to me "Familliarity breeds contempt". Don't get set in your ways, open your mind and take on board new ideas and knowledge.
Irv

If you read my previous posts, I stated that the helmet looked as if it had been aggressively cleaned, and that clouded the authentication somewhat. I'm not saying the liner is fake, just that it looks unnatural (for whatever reason), and on a rare helmet that is a red flag in my book. At the end of the day, you are the only one who has to be happy w/ it.

[william r match]

1.

[william r match]

2.

[william r match]

Irv,


The liner you posted as I referred to earlier does not exhibit any wear. Having been discoloured to varying degrees of darkness one would expect at least light chaffing to the rim in all but the mintiest of liners. Cleaning would not cover up such damage. The stretching of the holes in the liner would also be a strong indicator of a good amount of useage.

Such a tightly fitting liner that apparently! moulds into the shape of the wearers head would particularly exhibit strain to were the liner is joined by stitching at the rear. Again the subject in question does not indicate such.

I have posted a sample of 2 liners that exhibit all the necessary authentic qualities. One has witnessed good wear & the other light wear. Both liners are in stark contrast to the one initially posted which has been artificially distressed.

There are other less obvious issues concerning the liner but the aforementioned are the least subtle.

IMRO.

Regards,

Billy