DAK insignia inside helmet apron

[tropenmilitaria]

"While it is true that early in N. Africa only the infantry and engineers wore steel helmets and the artillery did not, "

I am pretty sure ALL German troops in north Africa were issued helmets, even if they didnt wear them the majority of the time.

JL

Not all German soldiers were issued helmets in the first few months of the campaign. I had a photo (now owned by a good friend) showing 3 DAK officers with M40 caps and holding MP40s smiling before the initial attack on Tobruk in 1941.
On the backside it is written that they have still have not received their helmets which were held up in the supply train but were going into battle anyway. Tough guys!

[Jean-Loup]

OK; I should have said: "all theoretically were issued helmets". Of course if the supply train was stuck, or the supply boat sunk, then... no helmets.
But I was under the impression that soldiers received helmets in basic training, and were then supposed to bring them with them where ever they were sent.

[John Hodgin]

were then supposed to bring them with them where ever they were sent.

This is correct Jean-Loup, but the first DAK units in Africa did arrive without helmets.

[Gulli]

OK; But I was under the impression that soldiers received helmets in basic training, and were then supposed to bring them with them where ever they were sent.

Thats not the way it was, why transport more weight than nesesary ?
Into enemy land is something different.

And just a small coment regarding the goodies on the inside of the skirt.
I realy do not think the one who painted that very very nice palmtree had a bad handwriting like that.
Must have been done by 2 diferent persons.

I realy looking forward to some nice pics.

Best regards
Gulli

[maui]

Looks very nice so far , indeed this helmet deserves better pics

I agree, great looking helmet, additional close up pictures of the decals and camo paint would be nice to see

[MilitaryCollect]

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewto...p?f=24&t=12142

Convoy 22 on 24 April 1941:

Stab und Stabs-Kompanie/I. Abteilung und 1. Kompanie/Panzer-Regiment 8
7., 9., und 10. Kompanie/Schützen-Regiment 115
Horch-Kompanie 3./Nachrichten-Abteilung 56
7./Kol. Abteilung 533
part of Bäckerie-Kompanie 33

[Alan from OZ]

I agree with the rest, that is one outstanding helmet.

[Bob Lyons]

Now I almost wish I had not asked Ralph to post photos of his helmet. I am drooling all over myself and cannot seem to stop!

This is the "Holy Grail" of DAK helmets and a very rich piece of history from the war in North Africa. Thanks Ralph! What a treasure to see this helmet again!

Frohe Weihnachten,
John

John has nailed it

Superb, and thanks for sharing the photos Ralph

Bob

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Ralph

Outstanding DAK piece !! No doubt about this one. Great to see You posting again.

OK; I should have said: "all theoretically were issued helmets". Of course if the supply train was stuck, or the supply boat sunk, then... no helmets.
But I was under the impression that soldiers received helmets in basic training, and were then supposed to bring them with them where ever they were sent.

This has been discussed before and is incorrect. Originally it was thought that the steel helmets would not be needed in the desert and its limited type of warfare. (limited forces, little Air cover, little Art support, units engaging at maximum extreme range etc) And it would fry brains if worn.

The 2nd & 8th Mot INF MG Bn's, 5th Lt Div DAK arrived in Tripoli Feb 27 - Mar 5 '41 without helmets. In fact the only DAK to have helmets on arrival Feb - March were the Pioneers & LW Flak units. While the Pioneers did wear their helmets into the attack, the MG Bns attacked Tobruk April 11-14 Easter weekend wearing the tropenhelm or M40 cap. Photos of the attack have confirmed this, and the POW photos of the 8th MG Bn which was destroyed when isolated from the Pz's during this premature attack. The solders soldbuchs also only have the tropenhelm & M40 cap or sidecap issued at that time.

The first Inf units to arrive in Afrika with the steel helmets were the two Pz Gr Regts from the 15th Pz Div (104th & 115th) . First arriving April 14 - May 2 at Tripoli. The only convoy lost in the Med of the initial DAK was # 20 which went down with 28 Officers and 315 EM belonging to the 15th Pz Div on April 16 after the attacks at Tobruk had already taken place.

It is inconceivable that the steel helmets were "lost" for the two MG Bn's & the rest of 5th Lt Div for six to eight weeks when the entire DAK was being sent over from Feb 14 - May 28. It is simply that the steel helmets were not intended to be sent until events proved it was necessary...maybe hard to believe but true.

Heia Safari

[BPA-Paul]

Im not much of a DAK collector myself , but what an outstanding helmet with great history attached to it, love the info and palm tree painted to the rear skirt on lid.

A German helmet can sometimes be.." just another helmet" !!, but a helmet of this calibre & condition with historical & personal info like this.. is the Crème de la Crème for any DAK or helmet collector in general.

Would love to see some better pics...bounce.gif

Well done Ralph.

[anders1940]

closer pictures of the exterior camo please.

[Jean-Loup]

Tim O'Keefe, I bow down to your superior knowleadge on this topic, and accept that I was wrong. I do find it very surprising that the Germans anticipated that no helmets would be needed, and actualy purposefully sent units into combat without helmets! Considering the important role that artillery ended up having in the desert war, it seemes very naive of them. (wasnt the El Alamein artillery preparation one of the greatest artillery barages of all time?)

However, if you look at the African campaign as a whole, I still suspect that not having helmets issued was an anomaly of the early days, and the mass of men in Africa did have helmets. Or am I also mistaken again?

JL

[Tim O'Keefe]

Tim O'Keefe, I bow down to your superior knowleadge on this topic, and accept that I was wrong. I do find it very surprising that the Germans anticipated that no helmets would be needed, and actualy purposefully sent units into combat without helmets! Considering the important role that artillery ended up having in the desert war, it seemes very naive of them. (wasnt the El Alamein artillery preparation one of the greatest artillery barages of all time?)

However, if you look at the African campaign as a whole, I still suspect that not having helmets issued was an anomaly of the early days, and the mass of men in Africa did have helmets. Or am I also mistaken again?

JL

Hi JL

Agree it was very naive to send Inf units into combat without steel helmets. The Digger snipers and Art at Tobruk made it obvious to all that helmets were needed. The desert war in '41 was much different than the war in '42.

Art became a huge factor as the guns could fire with open sites at extreme maximum range do to the almost unlimited LOS. Engagements tended to be at extreme range for all weapons sytems.
The Germans were not prepared for an extended war in Afrika. There was no desert training prior to the DAK arrival and maps of North Afrika had been decided against as Afrika was out of the sphere of operations as late as 1938. They had to use Italian maps in '41. The Italians did not furnish maps of Tobruk's defensive positions prior to the attack during Easter which they had built themselves....

Tim

[Jean-Loup]

"Art became a huge factor as the guns could fire with open sites at extreme maximum range do to the almost unlimited LOS."

Here is a photo taken at Alamein in the back in the day

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK insignia inside helmet apron

Hello,

Almost naval tactics.... The Germans specialized in drawing Allied armored columns within range of their anti-tank gun lines with devastating effectiveness.

C.