In the last several years there have appeared on the market a number of so-called "M45" helmets. These appear to be of two types which may represent sequential developments. Most (all?) are coded ckl = Eisenhutte Thale, involved in German helmet developmant and production from 1916 through 1989, and located in the former DDR. Type A: M42 rough edge shell, no airvents, liner M31. Type B: M42 rough edge shell, no airvents, liner of simplified type attached by rivets to three inverted V-shaped springs which in turn are riveted to the shell through the holes where the normal split-pins would be found. Does anybody know of one of these in an institutional collection with good provenance? Anybody know of one in an older established collection? Anybody have any firm knowledge of where these are coming from and if they are of pre May 1945 production or some sort of offering from the fakers?
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I've found no evidence that these helmets were made/in use before May '45... -
There was a thread with pics on this not long ago, in which some expressed the opinion that these were good....if the ones with simplified liner are post-WWII, are they fakes or BW-used? I've never seen one like this myself.Last edited by Frentebro; 04-26-2002, 08:08 PM.Comment
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Hello everyone
Check out http://www.german-militaria.com . the have one for sale.
It´s marked qvl64 and has an M31 liner
Jan From Flanders FieldsComment
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M44
Hello!
I once read that preparations were made for a "M44" helmet, that resembled the famous DDR helmet.
Have no opinion on these M45 helmets.
B.Comment
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Jan, in my opinon allmost all of the helmets from that dealer are outright fake. It's a good place to keep up with the latest fake SS helmets....Comment
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Perry
Maybe I´m to naieve
, but apart from all the certificats and authentic gaurentees - I really thought that this online dealer was good - I know some fellow collectors here in Belgium that already bought stuff from them. Does they really have such a bad name...
or is it alone with their helmets -
kind regards
jan From Flanders FieldsComment
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The majority of what the sell is bogus. They may have something real mixed in there every now and then..
Someone on this site said it once before, " a guarantee is as good as the person giving it". Allways keep that in mind..Comment
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Bjorn:
The DDR obtained the dies, etc. for the helmet you mention, as the factory was in Soviet-occupied Germany. The Nazis designated it the B-II, & i've read that it saw limited field trials in 1944; if adopted it would have been designated the M-45, but it seems Hitler preferred the traditional silhouette even tho the the new helmet was ballistically superior. I've also read that there is, or was, a B-II on display in the old DDR army museum in Berlin. See Casques de Combat du Monde.Comment
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"M45" helmets
The "M45s" being offered are not the BI and BII versions; they are M42-types without airvents and with (at least) two different types of liner. What I call a "Type II" is being offered by a UK website vendor it has an Army decal) and a "Type I" is being offered by a US website vendor. The one offered by the US vendor appears to me to be typical of a number of phoney helmets which have appeared on E-bay over the last several years; they supposedly are made up in Central Europe. Insofar as that US vendor is concerned I have acquired several items from him over the last year and a half, all of which have been OK, BUT I have never bought one of his helmets. It seems to me that he has entirely too many odd-ball helmets to be true...
It would be worth submitting one of these "M45s" to scientific metallugical examination to determine if the airvents have been filled in or not. In the meantime, absent good evidence, I think they have to be given a Scottish verdict of "not proven," and treated with skepticism.Comment
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A B-II would be an extremely rare find & i'm not sure if any even exist in private hands (the B-I was never even field tested, they would be "excessively rare" as they say in the numismatic field, or maybe nonexistent at this point.) I'm surprised that no one as far as i know has tried to pass off early DDR M-56s as B-IIs...maybe they know there would be extremely close scrutiny & doubt.
After WWII some of the E. Euro countries refurbished & reissued German helmets to fire, civil defense & other forces; these could explain some of the oddballs turning up. There was also the BGS helmet, i believe called the M-35/53, one version of which was without vents; possibly these are also being used to create fakes. They had a top-mounted suspension bolt liner system like the British pots, but those could have been filled in & the helmets re-linered.
(I always wondered why the Bundesrepublik decided to issue 3rd Reich style lids to the BGS - maybe just to annoy their counterparts across the line.):->Comment
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"M45" helmets
The postwar BGS helmets are, I believe, all of the rolled edge (M35, M40) type.Comment
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Craig, you are correct, from what i know...i'm presuming nobody is grinding off the crimp to create a raw edge...:-> Almost anything is possible, M-18s are being altered to create the ear-cutout version....
There is some strange stuff out there: after WWII the Yugos trimmed down M35/40/42s to resemble FJs & issued them to AAA units...(they were actually meant to be worn backwards)....i have not happened to see any of these on the market, however.Comment
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BGS helmets
Hi Guys!
BGS helmets are very common here in South-Africa. The South-African government imported thousands in the late 70's and early 80's to be issued to selected riot police units.
The government decided not to issue after all and all the helmets were sold on the open market.They all have the central liner bolt on the inside of the helmet with leather liners and no ventilation holes. The rims of the helmets do indeed resemble the M-35, M-40 helmets.They all came in a close to olive green smooth paint.
Interesting
WilhelmComment
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Didn't the Argentinian government have M42 style helmets well into the 70's? Juan Peron was an sympathizer of the 3rd Reich, no?Comment
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