MEdic helmet

[kennethc]

Willi, I have no idea about the provenance of this helmet.
I don't care who bought it.
My main interested is to learn about the M42 camo medic helmets. As I can
see there are 2 other medic M42 helmets in this forum with similar "look".

My personal opinon, when compare on these helmets. It's hard to tell which one
is original. Hence, frankly, I'm not sure.

Instead of just giving thumb up/down, I rather the advance collectors to
list out the flaws confidently.

Ken
================================

Why don't you tell us what your opinions are on all of these? What you like and don't like. Who owned them before they went to a dealer...and who owns them now. You forgot Cody's. I know what you are trying to infer about my opinion. You are barking up the wrong tree. I trust the opinions of advanced collectors, not the dealers who sell the item. The entire chain of custody is the key to most, and the key to the future

[Luftm40]

Well, I'm not an "expert" (who actually is?) but I'll take a stab. First, I think anyone who buys one of these so called "medic" helmets without either picking it out of the woodwork themselves or knowing exactly who did, has a death wish. . The one sold by Peter just doesn't have the right look, not just as a medic helmet (there is no standard for this anyway), but just as an original helmet. If this were a plain M42 no decal, I still wouldn't buy it. The liner, rust on the inside all look bogus to me. No offense to anyone, but it looks like one of the typical European junk helmets that you see on Ebay all the time. Now, if the helmet itself is questionable, why even bother discussing the exotic and rare camo? Just my personal preference...and maybe I haven't seen all that has been posted, but I wouldn't own any of the "medic" helmets typically pictured on our forum, regardless of which dealer sold it

[Peter v L]

What can I say..........

That you are all............no naturally you are not.

This helmet was found at a flee market, I personally bought it together with a well known Norweigan collector for a price similar to $ 45, please anyone thinking it is a fake, please sell me a couple similar ones for that amount nobody could even create a fake for that money.................

You can simply not have opinions on a helmet like this without handeling it, even though I am a sponsor of this forum and am for discussions of all material sold by dealers or collectors, I can just say that the forums have taken a lot of things to far............like the S&L KC´s for instance so many opinions so little facts. Many, often people with good knowledge puts out their own fanatic fear of fakes.......... on everything which they see on forums these days. Totally scaring upp all new collectors who almost don´t dare to buy anything..........and mainly with the comments like...........I just don´t like it.........or it is just not right.....It is the story behind the item which is important....Or it is the seller which is important.............come on..........as usuall not any real facts usable for the novice collector just the usuall mumble jumble...... an item have to speak for itself, not the story or the seller which someone statet in this thread......by just beliving you would have a bigger chance getting an original just because the story is that it was brought back by a US veteran is just silly...............hey if you have not forgotten it the war was fought over here.................in Finland, Norway and Denmark 100 thousands of German soldiers just walked home, you don´t think any of the zillions of items they left still exist...................if not then keep looking in Texas for original German WW 2 artifacts. All naturally have their right having opinions, but on a thing like this helmet where handeling is 99%.................and just beliving this helmet shell and liner by itself is a fake is near to criminal......

Normally I never comment on my own items, but in this case I just had to, the madness have gone to long...............and all my prices are usually better then most top dealers, does that mean I have to raise them to make my items original or......................the price is to cheap..............it has to be bad........go swimming................I though i could decide the price I neede on my items.........................

Just IMHO

This helmet is definatly not a new "European" fake it is a 100% original never ever touched or played with helmet, any one willing to inspect the helmet in person are able to do so at our place..............or I am even willing to send the helmet on my cost to any of the "real" helmetexperts for their authentication.


Cheers

Peter

[Jan B]

Okay, maybe I was to quick to bring the price into the discussion. Your the seller indeed, and offcourse you can ask any price you want, I want to apologise myself for that. Peter, like you've said, an item should speak for itself, especially exotic ones. As you well know picking up a helmet on a flea-market these days is not an closed alibi either. I based my opinion on the pictures provided. I still hold on that this helmet doesn't look right. Not only the inside, but both wear and paintjob too. I'm participating in this forum mainly to learn and also to give sometimes my opinion when it is asked by another member. I'm absolutly not an advanced collector, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to give any remarks, can't I? My opinion was based on comparison with other sanis, known as originals as there are no real standards for these helmets, besides the basic things, and so little ( references) is known about them. As with camo's these should stand on their own, no stories,etc...the helmet should tell it all itself.
There is no wartime evidence ( I haven't find not yet 1 clear picture so far). I've 'handled' not many originals, only 6 so far of which I know that they have a waterproof history. These were never offered for sale, and are hidden in several old collections in Belgium and nord of France. On the contrary I liked the helmet which was posted a few weeks ago. That one, although there were also members who didn't liked it, was a good one IMO (again based on the pictures that were posted).

older collectors in my neighberhood saw in their 30 years of collecting only few for sale on shows. Today, even on the smallest local show overhere, there are several for sale, mostly original nd M42's, the cheapest of the models to srew up by fakers. A red cross and white paint is easy to apply, and with the chemical aging that is used today, it is scary to say at least!

Again, this helmet could be good indeed,and if the buyer is pleased, that's the most important thing. My intention is not to break down your service, neither your items. but opinions were asked, so I gave mine.

Sincerely

Jan

[Peter v L]

Jan...............

No offence taken, and naturally everybody have all right in the world to their opinion.....................

What I mean is that some items are not so easy to say that they are bad just by a couple picture which are not even that close upp...............

By the way, how can you know the other helmets you are comparing to are 100% originals...................???????

I am FULLY aware of the new faked helmets with acid threatment and faked wear, I have seen a lot of them........I am getting them offered allmost every day.........it is just that this helmet is not one of them, it does not have that threatment or that silly wear as those helmet presents.............

Yes, it may be a rare helmet, so what, look at all my other document groups, SS KZ wehrpasses and soldbuchs etc etc etc.......do you think they can be found anywhere...........rare items are being found all the time, it is mine and my pickers and employees work to find them......................

It is not fair comparing how many items a collector find or a fulltime business with several people working full time just working on finding items.........

Frankly, I don´t think a medic helmet is worth more money then what I am asking, and in my opinion anybody paying more are paying to much..........but that is my opinion

Cheers

Peter v L

[Perry Floyd]

I think Andy put it very well..
This helmet would not be right for a plain M42 no decal. Anyone that could pick out a honest unmessed with no decal M42 can see the problems with this helmet, it's really that obvious.

[Peter v L]

Perry............

please!!!!!!!! enlighten us unknowing...................what is wrong with the shell and liner...............????????????????

It is´not obvious for me?????????

Help us out here. If I am wrong.................I have no problem saying so, but as far as till now, I se no problem what so ever with the helmet.

Why not just tell us what the problem is?

Thanks

Peter

[Perry Floyd]

Peter I feel you should know this but I'm going to assume you really don't.
Let me start with the easyist problem area of the helmet in question.
When you view the inside of your helmet it should look like this one, yours doesn't. That is the first and most obvious problem area..

[Peter v L]

Perry............

I´m sorry.................I don´t get it, it is not even a M42 shell you are showing me there.................if you don´t want to post it here, please mail me privatly at petervl@telia.com

Cheers

Peter

[JohnB]

I think Perry has a good point here. When I first saw this M-42 medical camo I immediately questioned the liner. And I generally trust my first opinions. What bothers me about the liner is that it is too dark and it is not a 'pigskin' liner that you would expect to see in an M-42. The dark color could have been caused by a soldier's greasy hair and sweat or it could have been caused by someone oiling it years ago.

But I suspect it is reproduction leather and if this is the case it casts a dark shadow on the entire helmet. In effect, it sinks the helmet.

In response to Willi, yes! all of a sudden too many medical helmets available. It makes you wonder.

In response to Anthony, there is no question there are real medical helmets out there. (Although as Jan would point out there is little or no pictoral evidence of them being worn in the field.)

Even though I feel I have considerable experience with camo helmets, the fakes get better every year and I often wonder how much I really know. So while your high standards regarding the provenance of medical helmets are sound, I for one am not content to limit my collecting to "safe" SD factory-painted lufts and army helmets. They no longer have very much appeal to me.

Therefore people who collect camo helmets need to continually develop a critical (or rational) eye. And this occurs only with experience with German camo patterns and the effects of age on paint.

So my response to Peter is just because a person cannot articulate clear reasons for rejecting a helmet does not mean that their judgement is purely subjective or irrational. There is a subtle rationality at work in understanding camo helmets.

John

[Rolf D.]

Where did it go?

[Peter v L]

Nothing wrong with the liner..............leather is all stonehard after being wet or in bad storage, it has drawn itself together quite a lot because of that...giving the flap angles looking strange and the hole sizes......but as I said, you have to handle it..........holes in liner are not different to original ones, except for the condition liner is in now........................


Cheers
Peter

[C. Kleijn]

This is the exact kind of leather liner which one will see in many helmets from Russia. Not the fake helmets but ORIGINAL ones, which where found in bunkers and other placed with better preserve conditions than simply in the ground. I have seen this many times. A helmet that I once had, a LW one from the Oder front (well not Russia this time), had exactly the same dark colour and was also stone-hard. For me, this particular helmet liner is not a point to say the helmet is wrong. Always interesting is the fact that these kind of liners are compared with the styles you find in the States, while you won't find dug up or 'bunker found' helmets there. It looks almost there is one helmet standard, original ones you can find in the States...

Cees

[Perry Floyd]

Peter yours is a M42, correct that's not in question..I posted that one for you to use as a guide as to what a honest one should look like and in fairness used a helmet I do not own.
The leather could very well be original and your right is looks like one of those ground dug bunker found examples from Russia. Where as a more honest one will have a untouched layer of chaulkyness from years of being unmolested this one has oxidation and heavy rust and that tell tell blackened leather. A instant indicator of a ground dug specimen or a artificially inhanced aged one. As someone mentioned you can find truck loads of these on eBay now, all of them have the same look to the inside and almost all come from Europe..
Now with all this you flip this one over and you have a white camo/medic outer coat that looks as if it belongs on another helmet. Notice how the wear is the same throughout the helmet? You have the same even wear no matter at what area you look at on the helmet, be it the middle, front, back halfway, etc. This shouldn't be from a helmet with such a poor inside. The white and red is worn down the same on the top of the helmet as it is at the juncture where the neckguard and dome meet. Plus you add the fake outer patina to give the white that "buttermilk shading" it becomes very clear why the outside looks the way it does and the inside the way it does. Someone used a cheap M42 in terrible, undesirable condition and made a medic helmet out of it.

[Jan B]

I couldn't explain it beter....as I said before, these nd M42's, not all in poor condition, are used today as a basis to make exoctic lids which suddenly appear on the market and were not found anywere for sale 20 years back. I have no problem with the liner itself,which could indeed be original, I never doubted that, but the aging ( wear) and paintjob is not good...my last 2 eurocents on this one!

Cheers

Jan