Relic SS M42

[Stephen Revill]

I've been obtaining a number of helmets that are being recovered from the old battlefields of Demjansk, including a few SS. This is one of the nicest ones so far. It's amazing how well the decals often survive, even when all the paint has gone. I can only assume that the metal content of the decal and/or the lacquer gives them added protection against decay.
The helmet pictured was recovered from a buried bunker, along with one other SS M42 and most likely belonged to a member of the Totenkopf division.

[Stephen Revill]

Decal

[MartyC]

helmet

From what I can see in this picture looks like a good find. Can you take a close up of the decal. I have a ground dug W SS Mod. 1940 helmet and despite the pitting and rust you can still see 60% of the decal. I showed it to what I will call a battlefield archeologist and he said it was common for the decal area to be the best preserved on the helmet because of the application process.

[darryl-P]

I hope you guys aren't being ripped off by the lure of original "ground-dug" SS helmets. Because...I don't have a good feeling about this decal. I have been collecting original SS helmets for some time now and that doesn't appear to be an original second pattern runes shield. Anyone else have comments on this...Perry or others?

[Stephen Revill]

I'm surprised by your comments Darryl. What makes you say it is a fake decal? I can't see anything wrong with it myself, but I know there are people more expert than me on the forum and I will be interested to hear their comments.
Please share your knowledge with us Darryl and point out what you don't like about it, or are you just assuming that anything that comes from Russia has to be a fake ( I realise alot are).

[JOHN VD HEIJDEN]

re

Hello Darryl what would be the value of the helmet
if the decal was real

and ofcourse if there was no decal on what is then the value????

Is it a very big difference
so we all must aware of this type also

Greeting,s Johnny

[SgtB]

I agree with Darryl 100%!

As soon as I saw the closeup of this decal I knew something was wrong. I believe it is a very common fake that has been going around for 5-10 years now. I cannot find an example of it, but
I believe Kelly Hick's shows a picture of it on page 81 of his 2nd
book SS Helmets vol.II.

Notice the curves on the bottom of both sides is obviously not
symmetrical - a dead giveaway IMO.

I don't know for sure how this helmet was aged so convincingly,
but I stand by my opinion.

[darryl-P]

Stephen,
I don't say this with any cruel intent...it's just that this decal looks wrong to me. As you say, many repros are indeed coming out of the former east bloc countries these days. I just hope people over there are not taking advantage of collectors by putting fake helmets in the ground and then digging them up later as originals from historic battlefield sites.

Besides being in quite remarkable condition, the decal is not shaped correctly for a second pattern runes shield. Of particular note is the round bottom and the two sides where the shield curves toward the bottom. Note how the left side curve is higher than the right and the left curve is sharper than the right which is more round in shape. Look at original second pattern shields and I believe you will see what I mean.

I may be wrong here but I don't think so. Again, what do the other SS collectors think about this?

PS - oops! Just noticed others have responded while I was drafting this post. Brian...my sentiments exactly.

[Ty Smith]

I do not collect ground dug helmets for various reasons but for me this is a difficult call based on the condition. The problem that I can see is the runes don't appear to be the same size and dimension. The 2nd pattern runes should be the same compared to one another.

The bottom angles of the shield appear incorrect as Brian said.

Fakers are now faking relic shells because it is easier to hide the bad parts of the decal. Still think it is a tough call, that's one reason I stay away from relics.

[Stephen Revill]

I am beginning to think you could be right in what you say. I've got some repro SS (late pattern) decals that I use when I refurbish a helmet. I've just examined one and it too is higher on one side than the other. These are very good quality manufacture, however, completely the wrong colour (grey) and when you put them on a helmet you can easily feel the edge as they are quite thick. They are also waterslide and easily scratch off. On the relic, I can't feel the edge and the colour is a metallic silver/white and it won't scratch off. Are you 100% sure that there were no original decals that had curves on a different level?

[Jean-Loup]

Its surpricsing that 60 years after the war, fakers still havent managed to make a perfect fake decal yet... It cant be that hard to at least make it symetrical...
If this decal is fake, I supose the fakers took a good grung dug helmet, then put the fake decal on, and then buried it for a few months again.
JL

[Stephen Revill]

If this does turn out to be definately a fake, I think I will leave all SS helmets alone from now on (as I already do with para helmets). All the fake SS decals I have seen so far have been grey rather than silver/white. Here is a photo of the repro decal I mentioned earlier that is also definately higher on one side than the other (Both on the same side, but if anything, the one on the relic looks even higher than on the repro). This is the best repro I have personally seen (even maker marked 'C.A. Pocher' on the backing paper but nothing like an original really, and I can't see how that decal can be made to look like the one on the relic, no matter how long someone buries it for - the colours are just too different. If the relic one is a repro, it has to be another type that has the same error in the shape but made of more 'convincing' materials. Or is the fake one copied from an original that also had the same 'error' in the shape ?

[darryl-P]

Stephen,
That certainly looks like the very same style of decal that's on the "dug" helmet. I am sure that this decal has now been updated and has much better quality silver field material...which gives it the reflective nature.

Real second pattern decals do not have this offset look to them and do come to a point (however subtle in some cases) at the bottom. Sorry to have been the bearer of bad news but I figured you should know rather than sinking more money into these things.

[Stephen Revill]

I appreciate the info Darryl. To be honest, I can't see why anyone would go to all the trouble to fake such a helmet. I didn't pay a fortune for it and wouldn't have thought it would be worth the effort to do it
I've just been looking through alot of the previous threads on SS decals and indeed there are some very convincing metallic looking examples that have been judged as fakes.

[MartyC]

into the fire

Well might as well try this. Don't have a digital camera so here is a scan of a ground dug helmet decal I had for years. The helmet is an M40. The picture is skewed to the left of center because I hel this on the scanner--in actuality the decal is cenntered.