Opinions on this hemet?

[NTZ]

Craig now that you got that off your chest (and I agree for the most part) you state you have a “perfectly good” helmet. Well you are seeing what you want to see again. There is obvious concern as to when the decal was applied. Even your letter from Hicks stated it is not the decal one would expect on this helmet. So to say it is “perfectly good” is untrue. General opinion states otherwise.

[boyouLaGleize.]

It's just a question,why talking about mid-war reissued helmet if this helmet is a M42 helmet.
I believe that only M35 are reissued.
No offense for all the US collectors,but I never saw M42 with reissued decal here in collection in Europe.
Maybe Vets take the best of the best before they return at home.

Thanks for help.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Johnnie - I did not call you out by name. You may disagree with me at times, but are civil, and act like a gentleman. I have no problem with my material being discussed, as I said before. And in cases where I think the material is not problematic, then you must expect me to defend it. The point is that people with age-old grudges will try to brand me a criminal, an idiot, etc etc - just by circulating rumors they have NO involvement in or knowledge of. For example, it was recently "casually" bantered about that I tried to buy blank, signed ring certificates from Don Boyle. So dumb a challenge, I didn't even bother to respond. But since this is the place where rumors stick, and nobody cares how many GOOD things you sell . . .

[Craig Gottlieb]

Just one example. So if you really want to learn FACTS, visit my website, and look at the fact that I sell a broad and diverse representation of material, all good, some overpriced for the forum market, some underpriced. The items are presented with clear photography, and my customer service in 99% of the cases is above repproach. When a mistake happens, I bend over backward to make things right. If you don't believe me, ask David Kane, or ask the person who recently got a ring/document group out of my personal collection, because the cheaper one that I had sold him was tragically lost. So, if you readers want to judge me because I make an occasional mistake now and then, go for it. But if you want the truth, judge me by the quality of my goods, the customer service that YOU receive when you call me, even just to discuss things and not to buy, and my track-record for offering quality, original merchandise. Look at this group:

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/in...rman+Militaria

Where $50.00 of sewing could have re-nazified this uniform. Did I do it? No. That's the type of business I run. And with that, since the "helmet" issue has been resolved in my favor, I will leave this thread to devolve into a "Gottlieb Fest" or whatever Texas Gauleiter wants it to be.

[Tim R. B.]

This has been a very informative thread on many levels. The comments and discussion have been heated at times but collectors are passionate, some may have axes to grind the majority do not and nither do I. I found these two quotes most enlightening,
T. Kibler.
'With that said, it also falls in the Strache family, as many decals of this type were post-war applied.

Combine these two concerns and we have what we have here....

Is the decal real, yes. When was it applied, I don't know. '

Deathshead

'The helmet has a lotnr that falls into no decal territory. Considering it lacks the correct HKP decal , I wouldn't want to own a helmet which has a good chance of having a post war applied decal.'

IMO the current description on Craig's site is misleading, and feel if a prospective buyer read this thread they would feel the same way.
As for the price...it's up to the dealers to pick the numbers. Tim

[Vid]

And that's just it. The forums have become a place where learning about material has taken a back seat for a few difficult people. They have agendas to pursue that transcend learning, or transcend "outing" genuine real-life crooks. It's personal for them. They take a dealer with a 99% track record, who very occasionally makes a mistake. When he does, God Forbid make a mistake, it is highlighted by those with an agenda. They initiate a witch hunt, brand him a criminal, an idiot, a know-nothing. These few want dealers to be more catholic than the pope, and when they fall short in ANY respect, these few are ready on the sidelines to start trouble. This thread is a perfect example. Texas started this thread to discredit me about a helmet I am selling. It turned out to be a fine helmet, and do you think people will remember that? No, they'll remember "that helmet that Craig was selling, which received all the crap on the forums." Has he piped in and said, "Gee Craig, I still think it's overpriced, but don't worry about my feelings, I'm not your customer. I'm just sorry I called a good helmet into question." Nope. He'd prefer just to switch to a stronger horse where his agenda can receive more mileage. Good luck, folks. It's people like Dietrich Maerz that are keeping this forum alive. Without them, the Texas Gauleiters of the world would run things, and then where would you be? Yep, another soap-opera.

And the Academy Award for B.S go's to........ Craig Gottlieb for "Oh my god did I get lucky"

[Vid]

Johnnie - I did not call you out by name. You may disagree with me at times, but are civil, and act like a gentleman. I have no problem with my material being discussed, as I said before. And in cases where I think the material is not problematic, then you must expect me to defend it. The point is that people with age-old grudges will try to brand me a criminal, an idiot, etc etc - just by circulating rumors they have NO involvement in or knowledge of. For example, it was recently "casually" bantered about that I tried to buy blank, signed ring certificates from Don Boyle. So dumb a challenge, I didn't even bother to respond. But since this is the place where rumors stick, and nobody cares how many GOOD things you sell . . .

So dumb a challenge that you did not bother to respond. So what? this is not a response?.

I will wait for my response on this while you figure out how to defend the Schnaufer dagger that Wittmann priced 15x below market if you go by your sales price, But I suppose Tom Wittman did not recognize this 50k gem?. Or Johnson?

[Vid]

Yeah, you run Craig. We can start another topic here, you think your going to skate away from me? Not a chance in hell, just remember I did not go after the decal, its you I want. You took 5k from a buddy, your mine!.

You paid for me, and you will get your money's worth. I'm just getting started.

[Johnnie]

Back to the helmet:

My problem here is the way it is described. "Mega Mint, unissued"
Lets look at what we have:
1. A shell that has obvious wear. You can see the rust showing through the paint in Craig's photos.
2. A liner that is dry rotted.
3. A decal, that although probably an original decal( I will give benifit of the doubt here) has serious questions as to when it was applied, or even if this type of decal should be on this shell.

THAT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE "MEGA MINT UNISSUED"!

I'm not even going to go into price, as even though it borders on lunatic fringe even if it was as described, it is still Craig's helmet and he can ask what he wants for it.

Craig, my issue here is that this lid is problematic on so many fronts as to defy understanding as to how you could pick it up in your hand and describe it as "Maga Mint, Unissued"

This is not a dealer mistake. This is simply un-****ing believable!

And I believe a valid criticism worthy of discussion here.

Johnnie

[Patrick Dempsey]

Craig, my issue here is that this lid is problematic on so many fronts as to defy understanding as to how you could pick it up in your hand and describe it as "Mega Mint, Unissued"

This is not a dealer mistake. This is simply un-****ing believable!

And I believe a valid criticism worthy of discussion here.

Indeed.

I am perplexed to say the least regarding this particular following quotation, for it appears to come from a different thread to the one i have been reading..

It turned out to be a fine helmet

When i looked at the helmet in question, a few things stood out before the i even looked at the decal.

1. To my eyes (on my monitor at least) what appears to be the typical late war shade of "slate grey" (for want of a better term) paint on the helmet.
2. The flat rivets, again what you would expect to find on a late war example of a helmet.

I then tried to reconcile these factors with the application of a decal.
And i found the only premise to fit was that it is an "enhanced" shell.

The final evidential postings that carry the most obvious weight in simple black and white terms are from "deathshead".

The helmet has a lotnr that falls into no decal territory.

I find it difficult to even wonder how this could begin to be countered as an argument.
It is Occams razor writ large regarding this helmet.

I have also been struck by Mr.Kiblers very nuanced reply, i apologise to Mr.Kibler if this was not his intent or inference, but it reads as if he has given you enough room to rethink your ideas on the legitimacy of the piece.

The helmet simply does not fit into the categories he has described to you.
I would be surprised if other members felt differently.

Pricing is indeed germane to the discussion, as is the description, as sadly neither reflect the actual object in reality.




Patrick.

[Mike Bollow]

And here we are again... NINE PAGES of unecessary battle to prove the helmet is gerfukt....

[Killerbee]

Indeed.

I am perplexed to say the least regarding this particular following quotation, for it appears to come from a different thread to the one i have been reading..



When i looked at the helmet in question, a few things stood out before the i even looked at the decal.

1. To my eyes (on my monitor at least) what appears to be the typical late war shade of "slate grey" (for want of a better term) paint on the helmet.
2. The flat rivets, again what you would expect to find on a late war example of a helmet.

I then tried to reconcile these factors with the application of a decal.
And i found the only premise to fit was that it is an "enhanced" shell.

The final evidential postings that carry the most obvious weight in simple black and white terms are from "deathshead".



I find it difficult to even wonder how this could begin to be countered as an argument.
It is Occams razor writ large regarding this helmet.

I have also been struck by Mr.Kiblers very nuanced reply, i apologise to Mr.Kibler if this was not his intent or inference, but it reads as if he has given you enough room to rethink your ideas on the legitimacy of the piece.

The helmet simply does not fit into the categories he has described to you.
I would be surprised if other members felt differently.

Pricing is indeed germane to the discussion, as is the description, as sadly neither reflect the actual object in reality.




Patrick.

Hello Patrick:

I mostly agree with you, but I think Mr. Kibler was just stating... if I recall correctly, that the "materials" are geniune but the application of those materials on a timing basis are unknown. Which still opens the helmet for questioning.

In regards to Lotnrs... I wouldn't hang my hat on that point... although it is one point to consider and should be considered. It would be nice to know the size of "Deathheads" helmet sample. It would be great to see a graph of his samples and then we can see the patterns. If his sample isn't that great then the validity of that point is weakened. The problem I see is in field applications and reissues (M35s & M40s)... I guess the point would be that there are not many reissued M42s... and M42s should have the least amount of decals applied... especially factory applied.

However, after saying all that, if the Lotnr data base is large 5,000 to 10,000 helmets then I would begin to pay more attention to Lotnrs. Maybe statistically you can use a smaller sample. Any statisticians out there?

By the way, does anyone know how many helmets were produced in in Lot?

Anyway, I look forward to anyones thoughts on this.

Regards,

Jim

[Hank C.]

And here we are again... NINE PAGES of unecessary battle to prove the helmet is gerfukt....

I'll agree, 9 pages was too much. Thread closed for now. If you would like to further discuss Craig Gottlieb's pricing and descriptions, why not open one, in the Collector Community forum, named "Craig's Pricing and Descriptions" (and keep it civil ). It would be better suited there, as we like to attempt to stick to helmets here.

Thank you.
Hank