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**TxGauleiter** · 02-04-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

My issue here is with originality.

I would argue that if it indeed is 'mint' and 'unissued' there would be not doubt...

If its neither 'mint' nor 'unissued', then anything goes...
wouldnt you agree?

**Ralph P** · 02-04-2008, 03:11 PM

Hello all - This thread will continue to remain open as long as it remains about the discussion of the helmet and its authenticity.

There are enough threads and forum members in the collecting community that are going to form their opinion one way or another about a dealer. This thread proves the point of which some members in this thread have already been going back and forth crossing the line...alright points made and enough said.

**Lenny W** · 02-04-2008, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

Here is the reply from Kelly Hicks, who I sent the images to (in much higher resolution). Posted with his permission. Last sentence edited because it's not relevant to the helmet.

imo i dont buy it to many if's with this decal and it looks like it was recentally applied sorry just my opinion nothing against you craig but the helmet would not be one for me

**Jos L C** · 02-04-2008, 07:34 PM

Nor for me.., besides that it's not mint and a shame it is priced like that..

Craig, remember you're on the internet and should be a example.., also told you that the Luftwaffe flarestrap you've is a obvious $ 25.- Czech Ebay fake made of postwar webbing with a ultra bad buckle and you ask me "what strap " ? while you only have one..
I don't believe you ever did research about that item and instead you priced it near $ 900,- and reduced it to $ 495.- now
You apparently don't have any knowledge about these items and in the meantime you call it choice etc..
I think this is a bad way of doing business..
We all make mistakes, but I think this isn't a mistake, but just : let's try and find a stupe..
This item don't even has to be discussed, buckets full have been detected.
What person made you believe it was original ?
The empty flares are, what a relief..

You may ask heroin prices to the addicted, but please deliver them good stuff instead of 99% profit related crap.
Sorry, but the whole business is starting to make me angry..
Don't F vck with your customers over and over.

Jos.

**Tom Kibler** · 02-04-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

I'm interested in whether the decal is original, or not. I'll post pictures of it on Monday.

Hello,

I was contacted by Craig and asked to comment on this helmet. I'll stick to the helmet and not get personal - this hobby has been torn apart enough.

The decal is a mid-war, period manufactured decal often used on reissued helmets. It is not the standard ET, Pocher (NS) or Q Bigfoot. With that said, it also falls in the Strache family, as many decals of this type were post-war applied.

Combine these two concerns and we have what we have here....

Is the decal real, yes. When was it applied, I don't know. I've never held this helmet, so my opinion is based solely on the images Craig originally posted on his site.

**TxGauleiter** · 02-04-2008, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by tlckibler View Post

Hello,

I was contacted by Craig and asked to comment on this helmet. I'll stick to the helmet and not get personal - this hobby has been torn apart enough.

The decal is a mid-war, period manufactured decal often used on reissued helmets. It is not the standard ET, Pocher (NS) or Q Bigfoot. With that said, it also falls in the Strache family, as many decals of this type were post-war applied.

Combine these two concerns and we have what we have here....

Is the decal real, yes. When was it applied, I don't know. I've never held this helmet, so my opinion is based solely on the images Craig originally posted on his site.

Tlckibler:
Do you consider this helmet 'mint' and 'unissued' ?

**Dr. Strangelove** · 02-04-2008, 11:14 PM

Well then

So what is this Helmet really worth now that we are not sure the decal was pre-45 applied and it is not mint?

Above Tickebler stated that "This Hobby has been torn apart enough", it is not the Hobby that is being torn apart, although a dramatic statement deploring us to stop talking about Craigs past conduct, it is way off the mark. It is this Helmet and the track record of the Person peddling it that is being questioned.

And it is very difficult to separate the Person from the item when they are a Dealer. Many Dealers rely on their reputation for great sales, thus the inverse may also be true and a Buyer may approach anything from a particular Dealer with the same apprehension with which you would navigate an Iraqi minefield.

Discussing a Dealer's reputation is just what them Forum is for and therefore The Moderator's have allowed this Thread to survive. Although it is difficult to get People to use proper decorum when confronted by somebody who stole their Money.

**Dan P** · 02-04-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post

So what is this Helmet really worth now that we are not sure the decal was pre-45 applied and it is not mint?

I would say if it turns out to be a period applied decal (in-hand inspection a must) I would say it's about a $1000 helmet (considering the condition of the decal). Many, if not most, collectors won't touch it if it's widely considered post-war applied. However, I think you could find some collectors who would pay $600-650 even if they think it's a post war applied decal. Just my pricing opinion.

One things for sure, you will never have 100% agreement it's a period applied decal. Something for the buyer to consider.

**Killerbee** · 02-05-2008, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by tlckibler View Post

Hello,

I was contacted by Craig and asked to comment on this helmet. I'll stick to the helmet and not get personal - this hobby has been torn apart enough.

The decal is a mid-war, period manufactured decal often used on reissued helmets. It is not the standard ET, Pocher (NS) or Q Bigfoot. With that said, it also falls in the Strache family, as many decals of this type were post-war applied.

Combine these two concerns and we have what we have here....

Is the decal real, yes. When was it applied, I don't know. I've never held this helmet, so my opinion is based solely on the images Craig originally posted on his site.

Funny how everything got really really quiet after Tom K. chimed in. I guess all the personal issues with Craig clouded the issue about the helmet.

But the good thing about this thread is that I learned something about this decal... "Strache" genre... thanks Tom!!!

See all the great learning available from the very very seasoned collectors. It is unfortunate they don't post more. But I can see why...

Jim

**Schwerpunkt** · 02-05-2008, 02:05 AM

The helmet has a lotnr that falls into no decal territory. Considering it lacks the correct HKP decal , I wouldn't want to own a helmet which has a good chance of having a post war applied decal. 1995$ ? Nuts !

Tom's reply certainly beats Hick's reply.

**Johnnie** · 02-05-2008, 02:37 AM

I also have learned a lot from this thread(issues of the dealer aside). And I think that it shows the value and worth of this board.
As others have said though, it is often difficult to seperate an item being offered from the person offering it.
The description of the helmet, is to me, as much an issue as the technical details of the helmet itself.
And I think that is a valid issue of discussion here.
Personal attacks on anyone here are certainly unwarranted.
But the evaluation of how any dealer aquires, describes, and sells his wares is an obvious issue in this hobby now, and certainly one to be discussed in order that all of us, and especially newer collectors, can make rational choices in aquiring the items we collect.
This has been a valuable thread in that regard.

Regards,
Johnnie

**Killerbee** · 02-05-2008, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by Johnnie View Post

I also have learned a lot from this thread(issues of the dealer aside). And I think that it shows the value and worth of this board.
As others have said though, it is often difficult to seperate an item being offered from the person offering it.
The description of the helmet, is to me, as much an issue as the technical details of the helmet itself.
And I think that is a valid issue of discussion here.
Personal attacks on anyone here are certainly unwarranted.
But the evaluation of how any dealer aquires, describes, and sells his wares is an obvious issue in this hobby now, and certainly one to be discussed in order that all of us, and especially newer collectors, can make rational choices in aquiring the items we collect.
This has been a valuable thread in that regard.

Regards,
Johnnie

I also concur with you on your points. Well said.

Regards,

Jim

**heinrich66** · 02-05-2008, 04:51 AM

The helmet has a lotnr that falls into no decal territory

That's the most important point to me.

**Craig Gottlieb** · 02-05-2008, 10:39 AM

And that's just it. The forums have become a place where learning about material has taken a back seat for a few difficult people. They have agendas to pursue that transcend learning, or transcend "outing" genuine real-life crooks. It's personal for them. They take a dealer with a 99% track record, who very occasionally makes a mistake. When he does, God Forbid make a mistake, it is highlighted by those with an agenda. They initiate a witch hunt, brand him a criminal, an idiot, a know-nothing. These few want dealers to be more catholic than the pope, and when they fall short in ANY respect, these few are ready on the sidelines to start trouble. This thread is a perfect example. Texas started this thread to discredit me about a helmet I am selling. It turned out to be a fine helmet, and do you think people will remember that? No, they'll remember "that helmet that Craig was selling, which received all the crap on the forums." Has he piped in and said, "Gee Craig, I still think it's overpriced, but don't worry about my feelings, I'm not your customer. I'm just sorry I called a good helmet into question." Nope. He'd prefer just to switch to a stronger horse where his agenda can receive more mileage. Good luck, folks. It's people like Dietrich Maerz that are keeping this forum alive. Without them, the Texas Gauleiters of the world would run things, and then where would you be? Yep, another soap-opera.

**Johnnie** · 02-05-2008, 10:56 AM

I dissagree. I have no knowledge of the personal issues you have with anyone here, nor do I care to.
What I DO know is that in every instance anything you have offered for sale has been questioned, you have had ample opportunity to defend it.
And you have done so.
Personal attacks aside (which I have always opposed) the fact that many knowledgeable collectors here take issue with your discriptions of many of your items does not constitute a witch hunt.
It constitutes exercising part of the perogotive of what this board is about. Examining the offers of TR items on the market as to quality, originality, and description.
If that offends you, then you are in the wrong business.

Respectfully,

Johnnie

Originally posted by Craig Gottlieb View Post

And that's just it. The forums have become a place where learning about material has taken a back seat for a few difficult people. They have agendas to pursue that transcend learning, or transcend "outing" genuine real-life crooks. It's personal for them. They take a dealer with a 99% track record, who very occasionally makes a mistake. When he does, God Forbid make a mistake, it is highlighted by those with an agenda. They initiate a witch hunt, brand him a criminal, an idiot, a know-nothing. These few want dealers to be more catholic than the pope, and when they fall short in ANY respect, these few are ready on the sidelines to start trouble. This thread is a perfect example. Texas started this thread to discredit me about a helmet I am selling. It turned out to be a fine helmet, and do you think people will remember that? No, they'll remember "that helmet that Craig was selling, which received all the crap on the forums." Has he piped in and said, "Gee Craig, I still think it's overpriced, but don't worry about my feelings, I'm not your customer. I'm just sorry I called a good helmet into question." Nope. He'd prefer just to switch to a stronger horse where his agenda can receive more mileage. Good luck, folks. It's people like Dietrich Maerz that are keeping this forum alive. Without them, the Texas Gauleiters of the world would run things, and then where would you be? Yep, another soap-opera.

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