Km Id.

[william r match]

Guys,

For quite a while now I have been researching differences between a KM decal and a toned Heer. It is a topic that deeply fascinates me but also one that attracts diverse opinion.


The deep gold, solid colour is obviously the best indicator of a navy decal, on that we are all agreed. On occassions a heavily toned Heer can match this colour superficially but lacks depth. I have several heavily toned Heer all of which have been mistaken by fellow collectors as KM and this was by personally handling. Similarly I have no doubt that if I was an unscrupulous dealer I could sell them off as KM very successfully.

What I am specifically interested in is early navy decals on M35s which have the ridge affect outline around the top portion of the wings and head. I have posted an example. I know that Don, Perry & a few others have nice examples of these also.

It has been suggested that a Heer decal may have this same unusual feature, to date I have found no evidence of such. I am open to suggestions and would really appreciate if any of the many collectors out there could refer me to a text book, reference guide or other reputable literature that has an image or mention of a ridge affect to a Heer decal. If anyone has one in their personal collection or has a photo. of one that has been through there hands, is aware of one on a dealers site for sale etc. that would be excellent to have.

Thanks for any help on this.

Regards,

Billy

[Edelweiss]

What about this one, Bill ? It was recently in another thread.

[Rich G]

Chris

Does that one have a 'ridge' or is it just 'shadow' ? When I examined my early Heer M35 there is no pronounced ridge, but there is 'shadow'.

Rich

[Edelweiss]

Shadow vs. ridge

I've been told that collecting "camembert" boxes was good for the nerves... My decision is made : my whole helmet collection is on the e-stand at the moment.

[william r match]

Chris,

Nice Heer decal. The shading is typical of the 3D type appearance associated with an army decal. It lacks that difference in levels that create the ridge affect of the early KM.

Have attached an image of a similar one (not mine) that was poorly applied but conveys the grey shading very well. The shading on the Heer decal you posted is just that bit lighter in comparison to the black field background. This gives the illusion of being three dimensional. The Heer I posted has the same graphics but the shading is grey in contrast to the black field. On the KM there is no difference in background colour, no attempt at an illusion of 3D, it is a distinct ridge.

Merci bien

Billy

[Edelweiss]

Ha, Bill, I was about to post this one instead of the former one ! Seems that we're on the same wavelenght...
Yes, I see what you mean, but nothing available in my data bank by now...

[william r match]

Chris,

I expect this thread to die out very quickly.

I have touched base with many of the top and established collectors on this and not one believes a Heer with this ridge type affect existed. Ref. books, forums etc. confirm this. Hard to comment on something that nobody has ever seen.

If any of us are offered a nice gold colour decal Chris with such a perculiar affect around the top part of the adler I am sure we will quickly realise exactly what it is

Happy collecting.

Billy

[Edelweiss]

Yes, I think you're right, Bill. That's very interesting anyway, you pointed your finger at a thing that I never was able to remark ; just to be clear with each other on this specific point, here's mine again. So, ridge, shadow, or... ? Look also under the wing, on the left...

[Ben]

Chris,

your shadow is grey, the ridge is above that in darker black than the rest of the decal shield.

For what it's worth Billy, I have never seen a Heer with a ridge either, only KM's.
I think that the shadow might be mistaken for a ridge at times on Heer decals.

Cheers,

Ben

[Edelweiss]

Ben, if you look around the head, on the right side on the neck, and around the top of the wing on the left (in particular), it's not "grey", is it ?
I'd like to have Bill's sentiment, just to be sure we're talking of the same thing.

[william r match]

Chris,

Obviously yours is not on the smooth surface of an early M35 which greatly enhances a decals appearance and highlights the detail.

I see exactly what you are referring to. It is that slight rib of black that hugs the upper part of the adler. Unfortunately the rough paint does not lend itself well to picking up on the finer detail and no ridge is evident. This slither of blackness is also a darker shade than the black field which may indicate it is part of the shading affect although not in grey like the rest of the decal.

The ridge affect is caused by a difference in layering, variation in thickness however small. The difference in colour may be explained by the narrow band around the top of the adler being able to absorb more wear and tear than the remaing thinner field. Hence your blacker strip!

On an early M35 quite conceiveably this decal may have had that nice ridge affect indicative of early M35 KMs. Needless to say the majority of KMs to not have this perculiarity.

Interesting one.

Billy

[Perry Floyd]

On Chis's I see a ridge but like mentioned it's tougher with wartime textured paint.
Also has anyone given it any thought as to why the black shields on KM decals on early pre-war configuration helmets crack/spiderweb on a much larger scale compared to early Heer decals?

[Edelweiss]

I made a very close close-up, for what it is worth ; I just felt like doing a little macro-photography this afternoon...

About the spiderweb-cracking KM decals, I guess it's a question of lacquer quality used to fix and protect them...

[RoyA]

This is a most interesting topic. Here are my toned Heer and KM.
Roy

[RoyA]

KM close-up #1
High metallic content and ridge-line...