Overseas - Original?

[bnz. 42]

Guys, I need your help.

Does it look original to you?

P.S. This is only picture I have.

[Edelweiss]

From what I see, I don't like it much... Even not at all, sorry.
Let's wait for other opinions, to see if I'm too harsh with it...

[Ken B.]

Wow! Those colors are bright. Was the photo enhanced at all?

Ken

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Guys, I must agree with Chris. I do not like this cap due to the overall shape, inked markings and construction stitching.
Cheers, Ade.

[bnz. 42]

Excuse me, guys, but could you be more specific? It is too general.. and not persuasive, strong arguments.

One thing is strange for sure - the soutache and 1942.

[Edelweiss]

It's difficult to be "more specific", as you asked for a general feeling with the question "Does it look original to you ?" No, it doesn't I'm afraid... Well IMO ; and an opinion is not supposed to be "persuasive".
That said, with such items, it's very difficult to have "strong arguments" without having the cap in hands. But well, I can try to be more specific, and say that I don't like the wool, the seams, the shape, the markings, the soutache, the overal look, broccolis, the condition and the year 1942...
So, the opinions here don't really aim to "persuade" you it's a fake (well, I guess), but to find a better one for your collection.

Horrido,

[CSP]

bnz. 42:
It does give the initial impression of being a repro. This is how many collectors approach a piece. I do. If it looks good on initial impression, I then look for deviations from what I believe to be standard/acceptable. Too many explanations required and I pass. If I get an unfavorable first impression, I then look for reasons why it might be good. Too many areas that can't be explained...and I pass.
This cap looks to have used mostly/all original materials. Many, many caps like this have been faked by taking wartime original overcoats - a relatively unpopular collecting item - and fabricating caps by canabilizing/cutting them up. An overcoat that goes for $300 can make a dozen o'seas caps that go for $300 each. The lining of overcoats and the outer cloth can all be exactly what was used on wartime original caps - and was in many cases....so you will get a good impression many times on these, but they usually screw something up. The insignia looks OK/original from here, but would require closer inspection. Original Soutache braid can be found easily...Manions used to auction it by the bundle. I cannot see the air grommet clearly, but it may not be a slpt grommet which would be a concern for me. The stampings are very elaborate...most/many original caps I see do not have all of this. It was a mass-produced cap - relatively unlike early M41 tropical caps for example which tend to be more profudely marked - and a manufacturer may not take such steps to mark. I sledom like the LARGE date in a cap. 4 numbers is OK, but 2 numbers in a date are better for me. Fakers like to jazz their things up with markings as they believe collectors are more attarcted to things with markings...which we are, but especially younger less experienced ones will fall for elaborate markings. For me they are a warning sign. The Soutache' for 1942 can be alright as I think it was July 1942 that the order went out to stop putting them on...I could be wrong on the month. The sewn seams do not look wartime. They look too far apart and too distinct, with "puffy" material between the sew lines. The sweing on an original was more subtle and tight looking.
As you can see, some points can be specific, some are 'feel". I would not have this cap in my collection.

Hope this helps you make your decision.

sincerely

[SgtB]

Yah! What he said!

And I don't like broccolis either!

[bnz. 42]

Thank you, guys, for your help. I think you are right – this overseas is a fake.

The reason why I asked for your opinion was the same "initial impression" you had. Although I found this cap on a very reputable dealer’s site, and it was offered as an original item, something told me this is not a real piece.
This cap just does not give the right impression - a "charm" that original pieces have.
I start to believe that it is hard to trust to any "name" when it is about money.

P.S. The order went out on July 10-th.

[CSP]

your last statement is so true...people do make mistakes...only you have to live with your decisions. But honestly, a big part of this hobby is acceptance by other collectors. Good you passed this one up.

[Johannes Schoen]

It is shocking that this cap has failed.

I was thinking of buying this cap some time ago but did not buy it because I found one for less money, which I will post in a different thread. I never thought that something could be wrong with items sold by this very reputable seller.

Johannes

[Edelweiss]

I don't intend to know who is this one, but as I said before I only know three or four "very reputable" dealers online. I trust them, but I also think that a "normal" human being can't be perfect in each and every collection field. Who on earth really is ???
So I'll bet that each of these four dealers have at least one doubtful item on sale by now (some actually many more). But it's really not a problem for me, as collectors also have their job to do (!!!), and are not supposed to buy any item blindfolded. Moreover, such forums are here to help them ! And as an end, I also don't agree that money is always the keyword, at least for these very few dealers.

Just to tell you a little story, I was recently interested in a helmet, sold as a M.40 KM by one of them ; IMO, it was a toned Heer. I shared my thoughts with the dealer (he didn't know me at all ) : he took the item in hands and finally agreed with me, before adjusting his price. Don't you think it's a fair behaviour regarding an absolutely unknown "critic" ?

If you feel like finding it, have a try : it's still online !

[CSP]

EVERY dealer - even the sponsors of this web site - make mistakes and have items that in my opinion, are bad or questionable...and in areas in which I have collected/focused for 32 years. No one - NO ONE - can know everything about everything..and I am personally wary of even the best when they cover the hobby from A-Z. Some sites specialize in medals and badges and thier cloth items are "iffy" at times, for example. Some are large volume dealers and things just get by them. I am not saying they are attempting to deceive - only that one should separate intent and good business practices from knowledge with dealers - ALL dealers.
Sorry for the editorial...I try to avoid doing so, but sometimes the degree of faith we put in some great businessmen bothers me.

[bnz. 42]

OK guys,

I asked the dealer if he is sure about authenticity of this cap. Yesterday, I got this: "Yes, 100 %, it came direct from a private household, never been into collectors hands before".
.. and two more pictures.

Please take a look at them.
Your opinion is important for my decision.

Still no Right Impression?

[bnz. 42]

1.