Number of camoflage helmets?

[nutmeg]

BTW, Nutmeg, while Pfshgo may think it brilliant, I think engaging in deception to discredit is inappropriate. I doubt you are purchasing that helmet from the museum. I would not get on this board with an excellent reproduction and misrepresent it as something I bought straight from the vet, or found in a museum, then discredit everyone posting praise about it by springing the trap later. This doesn't encourage open discussion.



I want the board to know that I'll never do that. If I post a helmet and provide it's provenance then that is the truth. I'm not attempting to deceive, embarrass, nor will I engage in such trickery. Thanks.
Krabs.

Baloney, there was no deception and you know it, and I never said I was "buying" the helmet (though I would like to), I said I was "considering it" which I was, ie, I was "pondering it". I never gave any clue where the helmet was, you are once again attempting to put words in my mouth (an old lawyer tactic to divert attention from the facts and rattle the witness). Besides for all I knew you would have liked it .The word "consider" does not mean to buy.





BTW the truthful provenance was indeed provided! You have VERY strong opinions on the camo helmets of others and are not afraid to voice them. It is a two edged sword my friend you can't have it both ways. You are not going to be right every time. In the world of camo helmets everyone is going to wind up with egg on their face at some point or another.


PS. Since you claim I tricked you ,then I will accept that as an admission you now realize the helmet is good.

[Jos L C]

All this brings back some memories. As kids in the late sixties... we use to get plain jane German pre and post war helmets and paint them camo for our war games. Back then playing Army was how we entertained ourselves... we didn't have the distractions that the younger crowd has today .

And since we were avid model builders, we tried to paint the helmets using those same colors and patterns as referenced on the model box covers for tanks or even fighter planes. We had no paint reference other than that, and for the pattern we had a few black and white camo pics of helmet from books... or we just made it up. We were kids... and didn't much care.... as long as it looked good. We had 10-15 neighborhood kids with those helmets.

Hmmmm, I can't remember whatever happened to those helmets but maybe they are in some collection somewhere today And now with the big kids playing Army (Reenactors)... 10-20 years from now... you know what it may look like then.

Something to think about.

Regards,

Jim

Think many older guys will have this memory..
Same here..
We painted them Africa colors etc..
Plus all local fire fighter stations here used white painted original German helmets those days, now in collections as Ostfront helmets..
That paint is about 40/50 years old now..

Jos.

[Kapt. Krabs]

Baloney, there was no deception and you know it, and I never said I was "buying" the helmet (though I would like to), I said I was "considering it" which I was, ie, I was "pondering it". I never gave any clue where the helmet was, you are once again attempting to put words in my mouth (an old lawyer tactic to divert attention from the facts and rattle the witness). Besides for all I knew you would have liked it .The word "consider" does not mean to buy.

BTW the truthful provenance was indeed provided! You have VERY strong opinions on the camo helmets of others and are not afraid to voice them. It is a two edged sword my friend you can't have it both ways. You are not going to be right every time. In the world of camo helmets everyone is going to wind up with egg on their face at some point or another.


PS. Since you claim I tricked you ,then I will accept that as an admission you now realize the helmet is good.

Silly ole Nutmeg, weasil words and doublespeak are the domain of TV lawyers. You deleted a post completely and the folks responding know what you were meaning by "I'm considering this helmet". Don't be cheesy But if you are, do better than one pic of a helmet you say is in a museum. Anyone with a mind and vision knows about museums. Next time I'm up in NY, I'll visit that one and try to find that helmet you say is there that you haven't provided further pics of or documentation on I (and most) would have simply posted the helmet, given background and solicited comments.

I have strong opinions about fakery passed off as real and I critique ALL purported "camo" helmets. I dont care WHO owns them. Dont want to know. We are in agreement that no one is right all the time (never claimed I was), and I'm glad this forum has switched to that format as opposed to "it's right because I say so" Better for all of us to have a little egg on our faces from time to time than a $3000 piece of honker artwork on the shelf. All said, and friendly ribbing aside, I respect and appreciate your opinions. None of us has all the answers but together with differing opinions testing each other we can get as close as anyone is going to get. BTW, without more my opinion stands on the helmet.
kind regards,
Kapt.

[nutmeg]

Silly ole Nutmeg, weasil words and doublespeak are the domain of TV lawyers. You deleted a post completely and the folks responding know what you were meaning by "I'm considering this helmet". Don't be cheesy

Wrong again, the WAF moderators deleted my post, please ask moderator Ralph Pickard. They thought I was baiting you by inviting your comments .You read it before it they deleted it .


But if you are, do better than one pic of a helmet you say is in a museum. Anyone with a mind and vision knows about museums. Next time I'm up in NY, I'll visit that one and try to find that helmet you say is there that you haven't provided further pics of or documentation on I (and most) would have simply posted the helmet, given background and solicited comments.

Please do, you will find it a worthwhile trip to Saratoga Springs, I sure did.
I'm not driving three + hours each way just to get some more pictures you will not like anyway.

I have strong opinions about fakery passed off as real and I critique ALL purported "camo" helmets. I dont care WHO owns them. Dont want to know. We are in agreement that no one is right all the time (never claimed I was), and I'm glad this forum has switched to that format as opposed to "it's right because I say so"

Or "it's bad because I say so"


Better for all of us to have a little egg on our faces from time to time than a $3000 piece of honker artwork on the shelf. All said, and friendly ribbing aside, I respect and appreciate your opinions. None of us has all the answers but together with differing opinions testing each other we can get as close as anyone is going to get. BTW, without more my opinion stands on the helmet.
kind regards,
Kapt.

I agree with most of what you say. When the museum sends me the data I will post it. Meanwhile, would you like to bet a steak dinner (with all the trimmings) for two at the local Morton's the museum does not own this helmet?

[nutmeg]

Silly ole Nutmeg, weasil words and doublespeak are the domain of TV lawyers. You deleted a post completely and the folks responding know what you were meaning by "I'm considering this helmet". Don't be cheesy

Wrong again, the WAF moderators deleted my post, please ask moderator Ralph Pickard. They thought I was baiting you by inviting your comments .You read it before it they deleted it .


But if you are, do better than one pic of a helmet you say is in a museum. Anyone with a mind and vision knows about museums. Next time I'm up in NY, I'll visit that one and try to find that helmet you say is there that you haven't provided further pics of or documentation on I (and most) would have simply posted the helmet, given background and solicited comments.

Please do, you will find it a worthwhile trip to Saratoga Springs, I sure did.
I'm not driving three + hours each way just to get some more pictures you will not like anyway.

I have strong opinions about fakery passed off as real and I critique ALL purported "camo" helmets. I dont care WHO owns them. Dont want to know. We are in agreement that no one is right all the time (never claimed I was), and I'm glad this forum has switched to that format as opposed to "it's right because I say so"

Or "it's bad because I say so"


Better for all of us to have a little egg on our faces from time to time than a $3000 piece of honker artwork on the shelf. All said, and friendly ribbing aside, I respect and appreciate your opinions. None of us has all the answers but together with differing opinions testing each other we can get as close as anyone is going to get. BTW, without more my opinion stands on the helmet.
kind regards,
Kapt.

Some of my answers to your last post wound up in the above box for some reason.

I agree with most of what you say. When the museum sends me the data I will post it. Meanwhile, would you like to bet a steak dinner (with all the trimmings) for two at the local Morton's the museum does not own this helmet?

[Kapt. Krabs]

Nutmeg,
If the piece is in the museum, which you say has a quality collection, and I dont dispute that, I'd like to see more pics of the helmet and as much background on it as possible just because. I dont care if I'm wrong or you are right, I'd just like to see more because it is unusual. I cant tell what that basecoat is, or what it was and became in time, or whether the thing is original at all. I've found over the years that known originals have their twins. I've not seen the twin of this one.
regards,
krabs

[nutmeg]

Nutmeg,
If the piece is in the museum, which you say has a quality collection, and I dont dispute that, I'd like to see more pics of the helmet and as much background on it as possible just because. I dont care if I'm wrong or you are right, I'd just like to see more because it is unusual. I cant tell what that basecoat is, or what it was and became in time, or whether the thing is original at all. I've found over the years that known originals have their twins. I've not seen the twin of this one.
regards,
krabs

I am sure they will let you look at it when you go, just call for an appointment beforehand. They may have more German helmets. As I mentioned before I was shooting Civil War and other early items and I only had a few hours in which to photograph as much as possible. Wandering through the storage areas I happened on this and took a shot of it because it was "right there". I wasn't there to shoot WW2 items which are abundant elsewhere, but there is only one Elmer Ellsworth Civil War coat with the bullet hole through the chest! A matter of priorities.

[Kapt. Krabs]

Now that coat would be something to see. Individualized items with actual history are quite interesting!

[Paul McKee]

...I wasn't there to shoot WW2 items which are abundant elsewhere, but there is only one Elmer Ellsworth Civil War coat with the bullet hole through the chest! A matter of priorities.

I assume this is the coat that was published in Echos of Glory and elsewhere? Post some pictures of it in the US forum! I'd love to see the detailing.

Paul

A bullet hole? Heck, I thought he took a near point-blank shotgun blast!

[nutmeg]

I assume this is the coat that was published in Echos of Glory and elsewhere? Post some pictures of it in the US forum! I'd love to see the detailing.

Paul

A bullet hole? Heck, I thought he took a near point-blank shotgun blast!

It has been published a few times.

[Jean-Loup]

Maybe of interest for the "official" colors discution: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=238488

JL

[Paul McKee]

Actually it's the whole uniform. At the turn of the Century someone in the museum system thought the blood stains would be offensive to folks and washed all the stains out. It is the blast hole from a shotgun and is rather large. Not sure if he got one barrel or two or if it was slugs or buckshot. Either way it certainly must have smarted.

It has been published a few times.

PC museum displays...even 100 years ago. Don't want to traumatize the public too much.

Nutmeg, we've corresponded in the past. I'm the guy that wrote that article in MC&H about federal sack coats back when Gaede was the editor. I also used to write and edit the Company-Wag newsletter.

I probably shouldn't hijack this thread much more.

Paul

[Stroodle]

photo

While reading this highly entertaining thread, I thought I might attach this photo from E-Bay?

I think the appropriate caption should read......

"Lets paint these a whole bunch of funky colors, beat em with chains, and mess with the collectors 60 years from now!"

Stroodle

[Kapt. Krabs]

Nutmeg, I'm not a CW collector, but have always had an interest being a history buff, and living in a state that participated heavily. I have an extensive reference library covering areas that I dont particularly collect in. I'm a fan of good reference material, so I recognize it when I see it.....and that looks like a really good work that I'll probably pick up (and hopefully won't get hooked into CW collecting as a result). Hats off to you if that's your work, it looks quite interesting and well done.
regards,
Krabs

BTW Stroodle, I think they're just overpainting them in rough finish grey-green.

[DaveG]

What is the time period and country of origin of that picture?

Dave