M42 EF SS helmet

[mandy333]

Greetings: I think this helmet might be of some interest to FOAMSPOON. This helmet was bought at an antique shop at a very low price(no war story) and I believe displays all the required characteristics of an original EF SS helmet. It seems to have been period overpainted but still retains the spotting paint associated with EF production. The decal fits in the factory applied production number what looks like 2534. The shape of the shield(bottom has been slightly overpainted,but tip can be seen) pattern of the runes, the sharp corners ,and metallic composition are all the chacteristics combined in a EF decal. Although in pretty rough shape, I think it really displays an honest example. I look forward to your comments and replies .
Regards
Zeke

[mandy333]

decal

close up

[mandy333]

top

top of helmet

[mandy333]

Ef

EF production

[mandy333]

Lastly..... batch number

What seems to be 2534
Thank you

[mr slug]

Hello,
I have no idea at all about SS decals, shape , size etc.
I am totally amazed and confused by such a complex subject.
And you experienced guys are free to laugh at such a nieve question, but...

...how is it that an M42 has early runes, and said decal is factory applied ?

Regards mr Slug.

[mandy333]

Always learning

Greetings Sir: As you mentioned this is a very complex area of collecting,and outside of the very knowledgeable with years and years of collecting these items, it is an ongoing learning experience. I am one of the ongoing learning, but what I do know is the SS runes are no longer catagorized as early and later issue...rather they are catagorized by the manufacturer. The EF produced runes have the same appearance as the "early or 1st pattern runes" and were applied ot the factory on helmets bearing batch numbers between 2100 and 3400 or somewhere in there. I am by far no expert, but I hope this gives you a general idea.
Regards
Zeke

[darryl-P]

The answer is simple...they are not "early" runes. That misconception has been debunked. Decals were of different design but the early and late pattern notion is erroneous. Each helmet maker had contacts for decals from different manufacturers, each of whom made SS decals with slightly diferent designs but still sticking to the major concept of a silver shield with two black runes.

Hope this helps,

PS - nice helmet, Zeke...and, you beat me to the answer.


Cheers,

[mandy333]

SS decal pattern

The answer is simple...they are not "early" runes. That misconception has been debunked. Decals were of different design but the early and late pattern notion is erroneous. Each helmet maker had contacts for decals from different manufacturers, each of whom made SS decals with slightly diferent designs but still sticking to the major concept of a silver shield with two black runes.

Hope this helps,

PS - nice helmet, Zeke...and, you beat me to the answer.


Cheers,

Thanks Darryl,as I mentioned the helmet is a little rough but it has character.Thanks also for explaining the decal misconception. You did it better than me.
Regards
Zeke

[mr slug]

Darryl and Zeke,

Thanks for getting me started on what I am sure will be a very steep and slow learning curve.

Cheers !...........regards Mr Slug.

[M35]

The answer is simple...they are not "early" runes. That misconception has been debunked. Decals were of different design but the early and late pattern notion is erroneous. Each helmet maker had contacts for decals from different manufacturers, each of whom made SS decals with slightly diferent designs but still sticking to the major concept of a silver shield with two black runes.

Hope this helps,

PS - nice helmet, Zeke...and, you beat me to the answer.


Cheers,

Hey Darryl

I have to take issue with you here. The concept of 1st pattern and 2nd pattern runes is still viable and correct I believe, with qualifications. I believe the Pocher "1st pattern" runic decal was the first one designed and first one used and therefore is correctly labeled as first pattern. It is the ONLY one you see on transitionals and early M35's including ET's and Q's. There are some variations, most notably the Q pattern, but those are just that, a later variation of the first pattern.

Somewhere along the line, probably in 1938 or 1939, another company started producing their own version of the SS runic decal in what we have always called the 2nd pattern. Again, there are a couple of variations of that pattern, but it is only seen on later helmets and therefore correctly labeled 2nd pattern. Both styles continued in use as long as decals were authorized to be applied to SS helmets.

I don't disagree with you that certain helmet companies favored certain decal styles and had their favorite suppliers.

A matter of semantics perhaps, but there is no denying that one style came before the other and one is still correctly dubbed first pattern. The other style is logically the 2nd pattern. Qualify them all you want, but they are still first and (later) second pattern decals.

Regards,
Terry

[darryl-P]

Hi Terry,

I suppose the true "early" pattern runes would be the circular VT and the clipped-shield LAH patterns...or for that matter, the very "early" hand-painted white runes. However, that is simply semantics. I believe that the terms "early" and "late" versions of these decals is confusing to everyone, hence the question from Mr Slug about why an "early" pattern runes decal is on an M42. Perhaps the descriptive terms which followed, those being "first" and "second" pattern decals, may indeed be more appropiate but I still believe it to be confusing for collectors. Collectors should learn the maker names/shell style names for these decals (Pocher, EF, ET, etc) and learn on which examples they would normally be seen. As always, there are exceptions to the "rules" so every helmet must be judged accordingly.

PS - I have seen a so-called "second" pattern runes decal on a black M16 helmet.

Cheers,

[M35]

SS decals

Darryl

I think we are saying the same thing, just in our own ways. To me, the general category of 1st and 2nd pattern runic decals is easier for people to handle than the fact that there are 5 or more variations of runic decals. But I understand what you are saying, and vice verse hopefully. There are plenty of us old timers out there who live and die by 1st and 2nd pattern runes, and we know which go on Q's and which go on ET's, believe me.

I'd love to see a black M16 with 2nd pattern runes. I'd be very skeptical of something like that. Have you seen it and held it in your hands? Only explanation I can think of would be reissue in late '30's perhaps.

Regards,
Terry

[foamspoon]

Nice salty example of an SS helmet! Well done!

Bryan

[mandy333]

Ef Ss

Nice salty example of an SS helmet! Well done!

Bryan

Thanks Bryan, I knew you would like an EF, even if it is a bit salty.
Regards
Zeke