M-45 helmets?

[Robert Donnell]

I came across this "Last German newsreel of WWII"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yoX-...elated&search=

Some of these helmets do not apear to have vent holes. What do you guys think?

Next is another end of the war newsreel with an odd short skirt M-40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlBAT...elated&search=

Uni forms can be grey, black or Dot 44. I noticed one camo cover but the rest of the helmets were ND grey. No camo paint.

[organix]

Hi Robert,

I reckon these helmets do actually have vent holes, it's just with the paint, lighting, lack of colour and overall quality of the old film you can't see them.

I could be wrong though

Andy

[Perry Floyd]

Hi Robert,

I reckon these helmets do actually have vent holes, it's just with the paint, lighting, lack of colour and overall quality of the old film you can't see them.

I could be wrong though

Andy

I would agree.

[Mike Osbourne]

I have never had it proven to me that these exist, except perhaps as production anomolies where for some reason they were not drilled. I have seen photos of undoubted original helmets with only one vent hole, so I suppose two isn't a stretch. There is a fellow selling a so-called M45 on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Extremly-rare-ge...QQcmdZViewItem

Perhaps it's real, or more likely one of the West German post war types.
Cheers,
Mike

[organix]

yeah that helmet on ebay seems too good to be true, not only is it a "super rare M45" but it's ALSO SS and ALSO a large size 68...

I reckon it's post war like you said!

[Robert Donnell]

I love you guys!

Half of you guys do and half do not beleive in the M-45. Yeah the pics are fuzzy but you can see vent holes in some but not others. The raised area around the hole makes a shadow even if the hole itself is not visble.

Anyway after all of the stuff that I have learned here about German helmets, I am accepting of and skeptical of a lot of helmets, I look at photos and newsreels as a reality check.

[MartyC]

video

In the film you will see a shot of soldats in a line. From the front it appears the helmets they wear appear to not have vents. However, in the several frames were this group is filmed from behind you clearly see the vent on one of the helmets that is in view.

Marty

[Marc Shaffer]

Run for the Hills!!!! Here it comes!!!!

[Jody]

M-45

Hello,
I agree you can see the vent holes from behind when it shows the EKs being passed out.

At the beginning of the clip you can see FJ helmets with the late-war aluminum bolts.

On a different note, how could Germans watch this newsclip and be encouraged by this. After watching this newsreel I would have broken out my Russian phrase book.

Regards,
Jody

[Brian Ice]

I have never had it proven to me that these exist, except perhaps as production anomolies where for some reason they were not drilled. I have seen photos of undoubted original helmets with only one vent hole, so I suppose two isn't a stretch. There is a fellow selling a so-called M45 on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Extremly-rare-ge...QQcmdZViewItem

Perhaps it's real, or more likely one of the West German post war types.
Cheers,
Mike

Mike: I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. Are you saying that you can accept these as production anomalys only, but not as known factory production?

As far as proof, what are you looking for? We have a COA from K. Hicks and Ken N. authenticating my M45-A (oops--ventless M42) as wartime production.

Ludwig Baer, considered by many to be the father of modern German helmet research, has a ventless helmet featured in one of his books.

I have posted photos of the above mentioned issued M45-A with M31 liner. Anyone using photo shop can use the zoom feature and see that the wear is consistent with known original helmets--not contrived.

If I understand you correctly, you acknowledge the helmet as a production anomaly, but not as accepted factory production of the time (1945).

Some members see any non-standard german helmet as a production anomaly. They have difficulty with the idea that the ET factory (or others) could have produced non-standard helmets for various reasons.

My feelings: if a helmet is symmetrical (the same on both sides), then I believe it was likely knowingly produced that way for some reason.

IE: -M35/M40 short skirt helmets (tankers?)
-M40 ear cutout double vent hole (4 total) helmet (aircrews?)
-ventless M42 (faster production?)

Above all I think we should keep an open mind. Remember, the year is 1945. Foreign invasion, massive bomb attacks, shortages, etc...Not only concerning helmets, but with other areas of military hardware production, non-standard changes/alterations were made. Ammo pouches, uniforms, weapons, and on and on.

These are certainly not considered 'factory defective' but are seen as variations in keeping with the dire late war conditions in Germany.

[stoneagegixer]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I thought the post war east german helmet was the "m45"??? Wasn't designed during the war?

Lubos

[luftwaffenkopf]

no the NVA was a result of the BII design which was going to supersede the M42 but never made it to production under the TR. what is referred to as the M45 is the ventless M42 which some argue was a real production model and some say it was a rushed defective M42. as you have read in this thread there are examples of M42s with missing single air vents and others with air vents in the wrong place. off center so to speak. the debate goes on and you can read about it extensively if you do a search on M45.

my belief is that the so called M45 is a manufacturing defect or better yet a cost and time saving measure taken by the TR in the production of the M42. either way it's quite a rare helmet type.

the one on Ebay is anybodies guess. i emailed the seller asking to positively confirm that the air vents were not welded and sanded down to appear missing and he hasn't replied to me yet leading me to believe that that may just be the case with his regular M42 shell. i expect it will go for quite a lot of money since it approaches the concept of being "one of a kind"... we'll see.

[Brian Ice]

M45 Riddle

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but I thought the post war east german helmet was the "m45"??? Wasn't designed during the war?

Lubos

Let me see if I can solve the 'riddle of the M45'.

During the war, the nazis had an ongoing program to develop new helmet prototypes (apparently unbeknownst to the fuehrer). The two that were finally decided upon to present to him for approval were the Model B (shell very similar to a CZEC M32) and the Model B/II (similar to a DDR M56). The selected helmet was to be mass produced as the 'stahlhelm 45' (German designation).

(The German desigation 'Stahlhelm 35' refers to all collector termed M35, M40 and M42 helmets)

Sometime in the autumn of 1944 (late Sept-late Dec) the models B and B/II were presented to the fuehrer for final approval. They were both rejected on the grounds that the current helmet (stahlhelm 35) was to remain the 'symbol of the greater German freedom struggle'.

The B and B/II prototypes (approx. 100?), then at the Doberitz infantry school outside of Berlin where they had been field tested for some months prior to the rejection, were apparently worn by companys of infantry school cadets while confronting a Soviet move towards Berlin sometime in April 1945.

(below) B/II prototype. Produced in 1944 (rivets IKA44 marked)

[Brian Ice]

DDR M56. As can be clearly seen, the East German helmet design was clearly derived from the nazi era B/II.

[Brian Ice]

Concerning the ventless M42 (often called the M45), I understand it was given this collector designation by an american dealer who found some uncompleted M42 shells (in a Soviet era barracks?) completed and marketed them as rare late war variants in the '90s.

Originally thought that only postwar completed examples existed, some were indeed completed wartime in the ventless configuration.

Some of these are found with the M31 liner system (collector designated M45-A), and the M44 liner system (collector designated M45-B).

Below is an example of a wartime completed M45-A with a 1945 dated M31 band. Some collectors believe the term 'ventless M42' is more accurate, but the M45-A and B terminology is more descriptive concerning the installed liner systems.

Addressing the question as to whether this helmet is a factory defect, or simply a result of late war circumstances, consider the variety of other German equipment that can be found with different late war variations (ersatz material, phosphate coatings on weapons, etc.. uniform variations in design/material, and the list could go on).

The late equipment mentioned above is not considered 'factory defective'.

Why would a very late war combat helmet be any different from any other piece of late war equipment concerning the reason for variations?