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    #1

    Metallurgical and ballistic Investigation of german helmets 28/06/1944

    Hi,

    I think is really interesting this US ARMY Government unclassified document:
    Metallurgical and ballistic Investigation of fifty captured german helmets
    Watertown Arsenal Laboratory 28/06/1944..
    Interesting the table of the chimical analyses of the german paint of the helmets.
    The document is in PDF format
    http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA954454
    rgds
    Quex
    "six italians, dressed in rather unusual diving suits and equipped with materials of laughably little cost have swung the military balance of power in the Mediterranean in favour of the Axis".
    Tags: None
    #2
    Originally posted by Quex67 View Post
    Hi,

    I think is really interesting this US ARMY Government unclassified document:
    Metallurgical and ballistic Investigation of fifty captured german helmets
    Watertown Arsenal Laboratory 28/06/1944..
    Interesting the table of the chimical analyses of the german paint of the helmets.
    The document is in PDF format
    http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA954454
    rgds
    Quex
    Fascinating stuff, I just printed a copy for me. Thank you for the document!
    When you go home
    Tell them for us and say
    For your tomorrow
    We gave our today

    --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
    Iwo Jima 1945

    Comment

      #3
      Really interesting document!
      Thanks for sharing!!!!

      Comment

        #4
        Had time to read everything today.
        So the study was about helmets manufactured before 1942. So (except the para helmet, of course), M35 or M40 but I couldn't find a distingo between 2 models, of course maybe my english isn't good enough but they don't speak about airvent eyelets, did I miss something???

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by wolhans View Post
          Had time to read everything today.
          So the study was about helmets manufactured before 1942. So (except the para helmet, of course), M35 or M40 but I couldn't find a distingo between 2 models, of course maybe my english isn't good enough but they don't speak about airvent eyelets, did I miss something???
          The report does talk about one M42, which curiously, is reported as having a 1940 liner. Did you notice that the para and a few others had tropical / light tan camo??
          When you go home
          Tell them for us and say
          For your tomorrow
          We gave our today

          --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
          Iwo Jima 1945

          Comment

            #6
            I had the same metallurgical thinking when I was looking my lids yesterday night

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by WalterB View Post
              The report does talk about one M42, which curiously, is reported as having a 1940 liner. Did you notice that the para and a few others had tropical / light tan camo??
              I've noticed the tropical camos but not for the para helmet. Gonna check again, as well for the M42 with the 1940 liner. As a french born language sometimes there are a few things that don't work straight away in my brain but I never give up!
              Will try again....
              Was I wrong about the M35/M40 no distingo?

              Comment

                #8
                Distinctions

                The Germans never saw a distinction between 35,40 or 42s the US Army saw one between 35s & 40s vs 42s for good mechanical and metallurgical reasons. The M-35 was the product of 1930s technology The M-42 was a product of the 1940s.

                It is funny that the Stahlhelm 35 was between 8% and 25% better balistically than the US M-1 helmet. it took 20% thicker steel to acheave this. The production methods for the M-35 were flawed and could not be fixed. According to the report the top was correctly heat treated but the sides were not because of not heating the sides to the same tempeture. Leaving the helmets in the oven longer would have made the sides right but soften the tops by leaching the carbon out. I can think of several ways to fix this problem but the 1930s Germans had to make do with some very old equipment/facilities.

                We have always laughed at the way the Germans "Over Engineer" every thing but ultamatly it was the obsolete facilities slave labor, and lack of modern Quality Control methods that forced the Germans to make the steel 20% thicker to get a helmet roughly on par with the US M-1.

                Comment

                  #9
                  I remember talking with one vet who after the war was trying to gather up souvineers. He tried taking a German Helmet home and had a wooden box in which he was putting stuff and he tried putting a helmet in it and it didn't fit. So he slammed it with a sledge hammer to force it in. Well, needless to say, he split his box open and apart. He also criticized the M1 for being able to punch a nail through it.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    It doesn't want to open for me and display anything. Is there any download I need?
                    Thanks!

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Robert Donnell
                      We have always laughed at the way the Germans "Over Engineer" every thing but ultamatly it was the obsolete facilities slave labor, and lack of modern Quality Control methods that forced the Germans to make the steel 20% thicker to get a helmet roughly on par with the US M-1.
                      Up to 25% more ballistically resistant that the US M-1, this hardly should be characterized to be "on par".
                      Last edited by WalterB; 03-03-2007, 08:47 AM.
                      When you go home
                      Tell them for us and say
                      For your tomorrow
                      We gave our today

                      --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                      Iwo Jima 1945

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by WalterB View Post
                        The report does talk about one M42, which curiously, is reported as having a 1940 liner.
                        However a lot of ET/ckl m42's helmets display this feature.
                        Interesting document by the way...
                        Mauro

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Read it again Sam.

                          That was between "8% and 25% better" in the report not consistantly 25% better and we know that the heat treatment was correct on the top but not the sides so depending on the testing methodologies used one could get just about any possible answer out of a test.

                          Overall a Soldier wearing the M-1 was less likely to sustain an injury than one wearing the Stahlhelm 35 due to more consistant QC, the liner, and better suspention.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Robert Donnell View Post
                            That was between "8% and 25% better" in the report not consistantly 25% better and we know that the heat treatment was correct on the top but not the sides so depending on the testing methodologies used one could get just about any possible answer out of a test.

                            Overall a Soldier wearing the M-1 was less likely to sustain an injury than one wearing the Stahlhelm 35 due to more consistant QC, the liner, and better suspention.
                            Nowhere did I say that it was consistently 25% better. I said "up to 25%".

                            As to your assertion that the M-1 was less likely to sustain injury than one wearing an M-35, I say.....prove it. What are you basing this claim on?? I have in my collection battle damaged US and German helmets and I can tell you that bullet impacts turn the M-1 inside out, whereas the German helmets are less so. The steel thickness undoubtedly helps the German helmet.
                            Last edited by WalterB; 03-04-2007, 01:38 AM.
                            When you go home
                            Tell them for us and say
                            For your tomorrow
                            We gave our today

                            --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
                            Iwo Jima 1945

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Injuries

                              Injuries are best quantified by energy transfered to the wearer. The damage to the helmet is not important. Sort of "damn, I need a new helmet," not "damn! I need a new head."

                              The liner plus webbing of the M-1 will protect a wearer better than the suspention system in the Stahlhelm 35 from impacts and in some cases from shrapnel.

                              Also keep in mind that the testing in the report was done on 35s &40s and found very significant variation in steel hardness from one helmet to the next and from top to bottom on each helmet! This would only get worse with time.

                              Comment

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