Another Allge SS visor

[SteveM]

Opinions and comments please. Thanks in advance.

[SteveM]

SS Allg Visor

pic 2

[SteveM]

SS Allg visor

pic 3 - sorry for the poor lighting

[SteveM]

SS Allg visor

Last one - thanks to all.

[TONY Q.W.]

Hi Steve, altough the cap is in a poor shape I believe to be an original. I can't tell from the pics if the visor and rest of the cap belong to each other though. Also, any RZM tag under the sweatsheald? As far as insignia goes I let the experts comment.

Regards,

[Donald Abenheim]

Die Spuren der Zeit

The cap is real. It looks like it was stored over the decades in a careless way and was in good shape at the start. I have never seen the piping on the crown damaged in this way. A skilled hand can restore the visor (peak) with period thread. Only have a skilled hand do it and do not, ich wiederhole, do not dork it up with a half-a$$ed effort which so often happens. It is worse for wear, but I have seen considerably worse, in fact, and still offered at great sums. These caps are more likely to have survived well because of various factors, but I am sure this cap will make someone happy, somewhere. Thank you for the images. Is there a RZM tag under the sweat band? These caps have appreciated in value. I believe the insignia are fine. If I were you, I would surely not clean them. They have a heavy patina, but it bespeaks their authenticity and has a certain poetry to it all the same.

[Johann Anton]

Very nice, despite the poped visor stitching. Does this cap reside in Kalifornia now? Judging by the piping "moth feast", I would say it maybe came from the east coast?

[SteveM]

Allge SS

Thanks guys for the review of this item. Here is an additonal photo.
Cheers

[SteveM]

BTW; as a matter of comparison, here is the interior of another - different - SS visor. This one I believe is suspect but would like another round of opinions all the same.

[Erich B.]

The last one is a bad one. Wrong everything.
Erich

[Donald Abenheim]

Heinrich Wille/Hannover but not Robt Lubstein/Berlin

The last one is a bad one. Wrong everything.
Erich

The RZM tag contains the Berechtigungsnachweis of Wille/Hannover, a major contractor of this kind of cap in the years 1935/6-1940. It is a wonderful cap/tag from the era 1938/9 I wager....??!!. The second piece is a veritable POS and is well suited for eating or casting into a Viking funeral pyre. I believe the Last Reich site has a Lubstein enlisted black cap on offer. I have never seen a Lubstein officer's black cap with the RZM/SS nomenclature, but surely they did exist and I am limited in my experience. The black officer's caps (Lieferungsmuetzen d. VASS/RZM) tended to be from no. German and so. German hatters, actually, with some w. German products thrown in for good measure. Maybe my wiser colleagues have something to say on this score. I thank colleague Chapman for the data on cap makers in Hannover on this account. We would be lost without his wise guidance. There has lately been a noteworthy avalanche of Wille caps, which might lead the paranoid to think they are all fake. How untrue. Rather, the firm plainly had a good, juicy contract for these items and churned them out in their # in the years of the expansion of the SS rank and file 'til the war relegated the black uniform to the sidelines and then to the Reisswolf. It is also noteworthy how much the cap was cheapened from the versions on offer in the era 1933-1935, also, if one has a chance to compare these in detail and in their # with caps of later manufacture when they cut the price and the quality as part of the Four Year Plan or whatever...who knows...? Wille also made a very nice Eigentumsmuetze version of this cap, whereas this is the normal wear piece, with a less appealing woolen cap cover. Sapere aude and viel Sammlerglueck.

[Johann Anton]

The second piece is a veritable POS

Hah, ha, ha...U kill me, man!

[Gary Wilkins]

Lubstein

To my knowledge, Robert Lubstein manufactured Waffen-SS caps as he considered it a viable military arm, but did NOT manufacture Allgemeine-SS caps - especially with the EREL logo on the sweatband, as in the 2nd example. As I understand his personal comments (which I have), he was not interested in the party, and I suspect, was not approved of by the SS, at least initially.
Lubstein was a very successful manufacturer, and while the majority of other companies were suffering during the Weimar mega-inflation years, Lubstein's company was pulling in foreign currency from extensive sales to South American countries and Scandinavia, and in one of his personal claims (albeit postwar), he states that he never had any need to let any of his personnel go during that time, due to the company's financial condition.
There is also no record of his ever being a party member, unlike Gerd Hoffmann (his major competitor), and the impression I get - is that he did not desire to sell to the Allgemeine-SS. His competitors and detractors caused him political trouble by insinuating he might be part Jewish - since the name Lubstein was used by both gentiles and Jews.

However, Derek Chapman, could perhaps put this question to rest: I understand he has an RZM maker list with cap manufacturers and RZM number - as used on RZM tags in Allgemeine visors. I have asked him about this list prevoiusly, but unfortunately with no response. Perhaps he can tell us, whether any of the maker code numbers on that list is assigned to the Robert Lubstein firm - or not?

Gary Wilkins
Member, U.S. Armor Association

[Arran]

Very nice Allgemeine cap. I would definately have the visor resewn, and would even consider having the piping restored as well if you have deep pockets or got into it at a good price...

Cheers,
Arran.

[Bob Coleman]

Lubstein Did Make Black Visor Caps As I Saw One In The Early 70's. A Friend Of Mine Found One In A Garage In Chicago. It Was A General Rank Black Hat With The Erel Logo And A Rzm Tag. It Was In Poor Condition As Paint Had Been Spilled On The Rear. However, It Was Real. We Must Remember That The Ss-vt Was A Military Formation And Likely Lubstein Made Black Hats For That Branch If Gary's Theory Is Correct.
As To The Second Hat, It Is A Horrible Fake. Even From The Picture, One Can Tell That The Sweat Shield Is Manufactured From Improper Material.
Bob