Vet bring-back RSI "MONTEROSA" div

[Humble480]

Thanks Marco and Ric!

Marco, I am glad that you like the helmet! I like it very much as well. You can tell from it that he saw a lot of combat in Italy.

[Humble480]

Hello everyone,

I had some more observations on the medals that I wanted your opinion about.

1) The first image shows a standard bronze "MONTEROSA" badge (an original), then the "MONTEROSA" badge in my possession, and third is the RSI Training badge in Gold that I own.

It looks like the "MONTEROSA" badge that I have is "in gold" as well. Is there any information on this? Would the officers, or General Carloni, be given a Monterosa Division badge in gold?

I put the RSI badge next to it for reference. You can see how the gold finish that is remaining on the RSI badge looks similar to the Monterosa badge! I have not seen this on any other Monterosa Division badges that I have found.


2) I have posted more photos on the badge that is currently "unknown" to us. My best guess is that this has to do with him being a military adviser for the "Flechas Azules" brigade during the Spanish Civil War. But maybe it is not?

What is very interesting are the markings on the back. I see that it says it was manufactured by "LORIOLI FRATELLI" and then the other side of the pin has "MILANO" and it is numbered "121".

Would this number "121" be the number of the badge being given out or is it some kind of manufacturing symbol?

Thanks for all of your help!
Jordan

[Ric Ferrari]

Hello everyone,

I had some more observations on the medals that I wanted your opinion about.

1) The first image shows a standard bronze "MONTEROSA" badge (an original), then the "MONTEROSA" badge in my possession, and third is the RSI Training badge in Gold that I own.

It looks like the "MONTEROSA" badge that I have is "in gold" as well. Is there any information on this? Would the officers, or General Carloni, be given a Monterosa Division badge in gold?

I put the RSI badge next to it for reference. You can see how the gold finish that is remaining on the RSI badge looks similar to the Monterosa badge! I have not seen this on any other Monterosa Division badges that I have found…….

Thanks for all of your help!
Jordan

Hello Jordan,

my screen shows your Monterosa badge made by silvered (lightly toned) gray metal, while the one at left by brass silvered.

I have no clues Monterosa badges were issued in gold finshing for officers.

Ric

[MarcoPennisi]

You can observe Italian badges of different units/branches being marked Lorioli Milano 121, so I doubt it indicates a serial number. Monterosa Div’s badges were not numbered, by the way. As far as I know, the “121” riddle hasn’t been solved yet. It has been suggested it denotes the production unit.

[Zip3120]

Thanks Marco and Ric!

Marco, I am glad that you like the helmet! I like it very much as well. You can tell from it that he saw a lot of combat in Italy.

Hi Jordan
yes I like your helmet as well as the other objects you posted.

Here are three pics for you.

It is one of my unit bagded M1 helmets, related to the Italian campaign section of my collection.
It was found in the 70s near the SS 65 on the hills of Bologna, in the Gothic line.
It is heavily worn and has a nice low pressure liner.

Who knows, maybe its owner was a your grandfather's friend

[Humble480]

Oh wow! That is a beautiful helmet. Thanks for sharing. The liner is very nice and in great condition.

Who knows! It might have belonged to someone he knew. By this time in the war my grandfather said that he did not have friends, because the casualty rate was so high. It was too sad to get to know someone and then have them KIA or seriously wounded.

I think it was one of the ways that he made it through mentally. He had decided early on that he was already dead and wasn't ever going to make it back home again.

Here is the inside of his helmet. It has not aged well over time.

[Humble480]

I found another one of his scrapbooks with more information. Here are some photos (Part 1)

[Humble480]

(Part 2)

[Humble480]

In regards to who this grouping belonged to, I have found two more pieces of evidence that put my grandfather in potential contact with Mario Carloni (or at least his belongings).



The first picture is from page 639 of "Dogfaces Who Smiled Through Tears" about the 34th Red Bull Division in WW2.

Second picture is of Mario Carloni and German General Otto Fretter-Pico's surrender to the Brazilian Expeditionary Force.

Third picture is of my grandfather's jeep while he was commanding the 342nd MP Escort Guard Co. Notice the 342nd on the front bumper.

Fourth picture is from an article I found in one of my grandfather's scrapbooks.



1) Mario Carloni surrendered in the exact spot that my grandfather was with the 135th regiment of the 34th Red Bull Division only a few days after he was there. The 135th was relieved by the Brazilian Expeditionary Force. Mario Carloni surrendered on April 29th, only a couple of days later to the Brazilian Expeditionary Force.

As a company commander it is possible that my grandfather's staff office could have been in a previous location where Carloni had his HQ. If Carloni had to leave that location in a hurry at the end of the war, then it is possible my grandfather could have come upon his belongings at the old HQ location. - Obviously this is pure speculation, but plausible.

2) I found an newspaper article and some pictures that put my grandfather as the commander of the 342nd MP Escort Guard Co. from September 25, 1945 to April 15, 1946. At this time the 342nd was in a POW processing and guard capacity as well as occupation duty in Naples.

Mario Carloni was held in the POW camp outside Naples in which my grandfather would have been involved with the 342nd. As the commander of the 342nd, it is not unlikely that he would of had contact with Mario Carloni at this location.




So far this leaves 3 potential scenarios for my grandfather to have come into possession of Mario Carloni's medals:

1) At the end of the war on the battle line across from Mario Carloni. In this scenario, my best guess is he picked these items up at a previous HQ of Carloni and his general staff where they would of have to leave in a hurry.

2) As commander of the 342nd MP Guards in Naples from September 25, 1945 to April 15, 1946 my grandfather would have oversaw the processing and guarding of POWs around Naples where Mario Carloni was held.

3) As commander of the 101st MP in Florence from April 1946 to early 1947 my grandfather would have probably been in charge of transportation and security of Mario Carloni during his war crimes tribunal in Florence in September to October of 1946.

It seems like there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that this grouping belonged to Mario Carloni and was brought back to the United States after the war by my grandfather.

[mario]

The image picturing the surrender of the German 148th Infantry Division to Brazilian forces shows Oberst Otto von Kleiber and the Brazilian Major Franco Ferreira. General Otto Fretter von Pico and Mario Carloni don´t appear in the image you showed.

[Humble480]

Mario,

Thanks for the clarification! I found this online. Do you have a picture of the surrender? Here is the other picture that I found.

[Dennis S]

This is one of the most interesting and nicest RSI related Veteran bring back grouping I have ever saw with enough provenance for me.

[Semovente]

Yes i think Dennis has hit the nail on the head !...it just keeps gettin better & better !...amazing History ...

[Ludwig]

Yes i think Dennis has hit the nail on the head !...it just keeps gettin better & better !...amazing History ...

Indeed! Very interesting thread!

[Raffaello Carola]

Hello Jordan,

Tnanks for sharing stunning history . The eagle is the
first type general grade of RSI .
best
Raff