Portrait Alpini-Insignia ?

[BPA-Paul]

Hi guys,

This is a portrait of my grandfathers cousin , can anyone please help me with insignia on collar ?? and what type of tunic is he wearing...sorry I normally collect headgear and no little about tunics,Thank you.

Regards,Paul.

Copy of Family Portraits_0001.jpg

Family Portraits insignia.jpg

[Ariete]

The insignia on the collar is divisional artillery. The tunic looks M40

[BergführerKiser]

I would agree with Ariete....Alpini (Mountain) Artillery.






Ciao,
Patrick

[Ariete]

Why mountain artillery? I dont see anything on the collor insignia to indicate Alpini? I do see the hat but that too doesn't show the insignia of (Alpini)mountain artillery.

[ARDITO]

Yes it's Divisional Artillery, Artillery colar tabs above infantry collar tabs.
Can you read the number on the cap insigna? I can find the name of regiment
and it's history.
It's an Em's of "Artiglieria Someggiata" (artillery transported with mules),in support at an infantry regiment, but is not Alpini artillery, the cap insigna, and collar tabs are different.

This a cap of "Artiglieria someggiata "





This is a cap of Alpini Artillery the insigna of the cap is different.



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[enorepap]

Ciao Paolo

Indeed, those men who belonged to the battalions of the divisional artillery regiments equipped with pack mules had the Alpine hat (as for circular order 6 - 48, February 11 1935).
But there is an oddity, because the hat was soon after abolished for reasons of consistency with the infantry regiment which they formed part (as for circular order 40 - 345, October 7, 1935).
Undoubtedly, the photograph dates from the early days of the war and the Alpine hat may have been supplied by the photographer for traditional reasons.
This fact could explain the prescribed small black badge (a flaming grenade superimposed on two crossed barrels), apparently not perfectly sewn.
About the composite collar patches, we have at least four possibilities:
red stripes on a white field - Ravenna Division (37 - 38 inf. + 11 art.)
green stripes on a white field - Sabaudia Division (45 - 46 inf. + 16 art.)
blue stripes on white - Forlì Division (43 - 44 inf. + 36 art.)
crimson stripes on a white field - Modena Division (41-42 inf. + 29 art.).

[BergführerKiser]

Ah...learned something new...not that I know much about the Italian army. I didn't know that anyone other than Aplini wore the "Cappello Alpino." Thanks for the new insights.

Ciao,
Patrick

[BPA-Paul]

Hi Guys,

Thank you so far for your help Ardito and Marcello, and as always down to the fine details and info marcello , thanks to the other members for your input.

This is a very interesting photo but Im a little confused and I have limited info from my family except for my grandfathers cousins name, still trying to work out what regiment he was in so I can research some historical background on the regiment.

I have posted a table of regiments you have mentioned Marcello, but what is interesting is the regiment number on his hat, these are the best photos I could do trying to hold a magnifying loupe and take photos..it aint easy its hard to see in photo but in hand its fairly clear its Regiment 12, what to think ??

Cap Insignia.jpg

Cap Insignia A.jpg

[BPA-Paul]

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[ATTACH]1973206[/ATTACH]

[BPA-Paul]

Ciao Paolo

Alpine hat may have been supplied by the photographer for traditional reasons.

red stripes on a white field - Ravenna Division (37 - 38 inf. + 11 art.)
green stripes on a white field - Sabaudia Division (45 - 46 inf. + 16 art.)
blue stripes on white - Forlì Division (43 - 44 inf. + 36 art.)
crimson stripes on a white field - Modena Division (41-42 inf. + 29 art.).

Marcello , this could be a possibility... Regiment number on cap does not correspond with collar tabs.

Paolo.

[enorepap]

Ciao Paolo

This is difficult to explain. The 12 th Artillery Regiment was, since the outbreak of the war, with the Savona division (collar patches: a white background with a single black stripe in the middle). Not the case here.

[enorepap]

Ah...learned something new...not that I know much about the Italian army. I didn't know that anyone other than Aplini wore the "Cappello Alpino." Thanks for the new insights.

Ciao,
Patrick

Hallo Patrick

This is a very complicated topic, because the Alpine hat was used, with or without feather, with a lot of differences by:
- Alpine troops, alpine machine gunners, mountain artillery and engineers, mountain chemical units;
- Services' officers, (e.g.: medics, veterinarians, etc.) assigned to the mountain troops;
- Border Guard (infantry, artillery, engineers);
- avant-garde and militia officers and leaders of youth organizations of the National Fascist Party;
- Railway, road, postal (until 1931), forestry, border, university (until 1943) as well as colonial Militia;
- Finance Guard.

[ARDITO]

The 12 th Artillery also had batteries of cannons 75/13 (Someggiati?).
your cousin's grandfather fought in Africa?
The 12 th fought in 1935-36 in A.O.I.: Calaminò, Ghevà Endertà (Amba Aradam) 2° Tembien Socotà
And in 1941-42 in A.S. : Sollum, Sidi Omar, Halfaya Pass
But as has been rightly said, the insignia of the infantry under those of artillery
are not the ones who had the 12 th Artillery.
We should have more information on places where he fought.
Ciao, Luca

[BPA-Paul]

The 12 th Artillery also had batteries of cannons 75/13 (Someggiati?).
your cousin's grandfather fought in Africa?
The 12 th fought in 1935-36 in A.O.I.: Calaminò, Ghevà Endertà (Amba Aradam) 2° Tembien Socotà
And in 1941-42 in A.S. : Sollum, Sidi Omar, Halfaya Pass
But as has been rightly said, the insignia of the infantry under those of artillery
are not the ones who had the 12 th Artillery.
We should have more information on places where he fought.
Ciao, Luca

Hello Luca,

Like I mentioned earlier this portrait is my nonno's cugino and I have little information from the my family only his name, everyone is gone now so I am unable to receive anymore info, the portrait was in my nonna's photo album, so Im left with trying to do a little research, as mentioned earlier maybe Alpine hat may have been supplied by the photographer for traditional reasons but I think thats as far as we can go.

Thank you for your help Luca.

[BPA-Paul]

Ciao Paolo

This is difficult to explain. The 12 th Artillery Regiment was, since the outbreak of the war, with the Savona division (collar patches: a white background with a single black stripe in the middle). Not the case here.

Thanks for your help Marcello much appreciated

I think I will have to live with the four possiblity of regiments as you mentioned earlier, its a shame the photo is not colour.