Italian SS helmet M33 (?)

[Dennis S]

Not to go crazy with this photo , but here it is inverted to me a metal skull for sure. Lorioli maybe.

[Luca Ongaro]

Not to go crazy with this photo , but here it is inverted to me a metal skull for sure. Lorioli maybe.

Agree Dennis.
Great job, thanks.
Luca

[wallonien]

I'm sorry Dennis but I just don't think it's the same person, the enlisted legionary was 17 and the officer looks like he's a lot older, and wasn't it unlikely to go from EM to officer in such a short time? Yes I know it happened in the case of Léon Degrelle for example, but we're talking about a regular italian soldier here. (I would guess i'ts probably less than a year between the two photos). The officer is also wearing the ribbons of pre-1943 medals.

Just my 5 cents!

Anyway, IMO that's a Lorioli skull!

[Dennis S]

I'm sorry Dennis but I just don't think it's the same person, the enlisted legionary was 17 and the officer looks like he's a lot older, and wasn't it unlikely to go from EM to officer in such a short time? Yes I know it happened in the case of Léon Degrelle for example, but we're talking about a regular italian soldier here. (I would guess i'ts probably less than a year between the two photos). The officer is also wearing the ribbons of pre-1943 medals.

Just my 5 cents!


Anyway, IMO that's a Lorioli skull!

Yes, I agree and thought of everything you state, but the Legionere with the EK medal and skull does not look 17yoa to me anyway. I think it 's still a chance its him , but the name is wrong on the photo. The faces look similar to me (long and long nose)and even helmet size(large) He has no rank on the EK photo so we do not know what rank he was then for sure.

Just my 2 cents less than your 5

Lorioli's

[Dennis S]

If anyone that is following this thread and has some interest in the Italian SS. Here are two threads with some info

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ane+ss&page=10

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ht=italiane+ss

You can also check my blog/website it has a photographic Italian SS section
and more will be added. It's still under construction

[piesse.54]

detail decal first helmet posted by Luca Ongaro.

helmet0001.JPG

[piesse.54]

[ATTACH]1282587[/ATTACH]

[PBR]

Btw, the well known book "Storia della Legione SS Italiana" published by Ritter does mention few decalled helmets by an Officer's request (named Comelli if I remember well) : what's your opinion about ?

Ric

My opinion about is that what you say is not correct.
There's not mention of decals at all on that page: it's just said that painted SS shields were applied to some 100s helmets on Comelli's request.
That's it.
At the present day there's NO evidence at all that Italian SS helmets were decalled.

[Paolo]

My opinion about is that what you say is not correct.
There's not mention of decals at all on that page: it's just said that painted SS shields were applied to some 100s helmets on Comelli's request.
That's it.
At the present day there's NO evidence at all that Italian SS helmets were decalled.

The book in question does not actully mention the word "decal" but at the same time does not expressly reject that SS decals could have been used. A wise approach indeed...
No photographic evidence? True so far
Can we exclude that Italian decals were produced and issued in some circumstances to members of the 29th? I would personally say no.

Years ago, beginning of the 80s, in Volume 2 of Bender's "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" a picture of an Italian decalled helmet was published. The decal has a shape which is very much different from the German model (and the one in the picture above) and I am inclined to believe the picture shows an original WWII period helmet.

Interesting thread indeed.

Paolo

[Raffaello Carola]

the decal has a shape which is very much different from the German model
(and the one in the picture above) and I am inclined to believe the picture
shows an original WWII period helmet.
Paolo

unfortunately this part of the book have more photos of repro..
the application of the tri-colour shield is not supportate with WW2
era photos. Pio Filippani Ronconi for many years was professor of
University "ORIENTALE"in my city Naples and I have for more times
some question and discussion about the Italian SS Legion.
In the war he was adjutant of Waffen Generalmajor Mannelli the
only italian officer SS with this grade, never mentioned in the memories
the tri-color shield used only from other formation of RSI, but never from
the italian SS.
In the very good book of Nava and Corbatti page 345 is written:
" is suspect of fake the helmet with the rune and tri-color shield".
cheers
Raffaello

[Raffaello Carola]

photo of Manion's auction catalog 213 July 2000 italian WSS
bad decals on an M42...

[PBR]

Hello Paolo,

The book in question does not actully mention the word "decal" but at the same time does not expressly reject that SS decals could have been used. A wise approach indeed...No photographic evidence? True so far

The book in question clearly stated that Comelli's men used painted insignas on the helmets, so, also these 100 helmets were very likely issued with painted insignas, since they belonged to that very same unit.

Can we exclude that Italian decals were produced and issued in some circumstances to members of the 29th? I would personally say no.

Personal speculation.
There's nothing on earth that make us presume that Italian SS were issued variation italian made SS decal.
And, notice well, nothing on earth.
I can say that Hindi WSS or Kaukasian WSS were issued variation field made SS decals, but this is still just speculation.
Plain and simple.

Years ago, beginning of the 80s, in Volume 2 of Bender's "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" a picture of an Italian decalled helmet was published. The decal has a shape which is very much different from the German model (and the one in the picture above) and I am inclined to believe the picture shows an original WWII period helmet.

Interesting thread indeed.

Paolo

I don't personally like that helmet, but, anyway, not here to talk about surviving helmets, but about facts: NO veteran ever reported anything about SS decals issued on M33 italian helmets.
This is, so far, the only certain fact.

[PBR]

photo of Manion's auction catalog 213 July 2000 italian WSS
bad decals on an M42...

As you correctly say, the national flag decal on Italian SS helmets is pure fantasy.
And anyway, german helmets were used by Debica Btl. only, with SS german made decals only (or with no decals at all).
BTW "seated" runes were made "that" way just because it was much easier to paint them, so, the most of the "seated rune" decals are very likely fakes.

[Raffaello Carola]

And anyway, german helmets were used by
Debica Btl. only, with SS german made decals only (or with no decals at all).

Dear Tom,
agree, have german equipment the battalion formed at the SS heidelager
training centre at Debica (how the unit get hers nickname) is a town in
southeastern Poland (Reich Government).
Most of the volunteers come from the 31st tank battalion of the italian
Lombardia division plus former members of the Julia alpine division.
There were 20 officers and 571 men served in the unit under italian
Major Fortunato, a former CO of the 6th Bersaglieri regiment.
cheers
Raffaello

[PBR]

Dear Tom,
agree, have german equipment the battalion formed at the SS heidelager
training centre at Debica (how the unit get hers nickname) is a town in
southeastern Poland (Reich Government).
Most of the volunteers come from the 31st tank battalion of the italian
Lombardia division plus former members of the Julia alpine division.
There were 20 officers and 571 men served in the unit under italian
Major Fortunato, a former CO of the 6th Bersaglieri regiment.
cheers
Raffaello