Italian SS helmet M33 (?)

[DougB]

To what level of detail has this decal been magnified?

[Dennis S]

Friends, I saw an identical decal on two German M.42 helmets .They had
also on the right side a decalled tri-colour shield(not present on this M.33).These helmets had been seen by the most part of the Italian collector's community and judged as fakes made in the 80's.Some helmets of this kind and M.33s were available on the US market at unbelievable prices till the end of the 90's. I agree with Flashider:the rust looks artificial and the paint job, even if well made doesn't inspire... I saw in the past other SS decals on Italian helmets, but they were without any doubt the German ones.Till today, even if nobody can exclude that original decals for the 'SS Italiana' have been made,I've only experience and photographic evidence of the time on hand made stencilled badges. I understand this opinion can't help very much
this interesting matter, but I think we're all looking for a better knowledge
on this field.PaoloM

Do have any file photos of the German Helmets with the same decal to show. I would be intersted to see them. Thanks

[Paolo Marzetti]

Do have any file photos of the German Helmets with the same decal to show. I would be intersted to see them. Thanks

I'm not authorized to publish these private photos on WA,but write me
privately.PaoloM

[Ric Ferrari]

Do have any file photos of the German Helmets with the same decal to show. I would be intersted to see them. Thanks

Hello Dennis,

I probably own photos of the same German helmet (M 1942) Paolo is referring to and I wil post them later (those photos were available on the net around 10 years ago)

Just a little detail : that decal is not the same as mine , at first sight very similat but I repeat not the same.

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Flashider, Paolo,

I have been collecting German and Italian helmets (WWI & WWII) from 1980 up to 2000 and believe me I've had a lot of them in my hands over the years : to my experience that patina is without doubt original and the decal period applied.
The fact it's the first time collectors are able to see a decal like that, to me confirm it's not a mass produced repro.

Of course, if someone else is able to post the exact same decal (not a similar one) I will be more than happy

Best

Ric

[Paolo Marzetti]

Yes, I've seen the differences among the various decals on what we're
dealing with. The runes are absolutely the same.Difference: the shield,
less squared on those applied on the M.42s.On the M.33 really squared.
Tell me what difference you find between the runes on the M.33 and on
the M.42... really suspicious IMO.PaoloM
Your helmet:

[Ric Ferrari]

Sorry Ric....


To me appears as a big "buck"!!

I never saw a decal like this...if it's made like an "original Italian SS decal"...sincerely I don't know...
But for sure the paintjob and the rust of this helmet appears artificially made.

Could you please show us more photos of the liner, chinstrap, interior of the rivets...

Thank you

Later some pics of the inside even if it does not help that much : liner is replaced (IMO) and chinstrap could be period but not a regular one (see photo #44), instead the rivets are like they must be

Best

Ric

[Paolo Marzetti]

...I can publish only this, coming from a known published auction:
(check the runes...identical angles!)

I've other three of them coming from three different helmets.

[Ric Ferrari]

Yes, I've seen the differences among the various decals on what we're
dealing with. The runes are absolutely the same.Difference: the shield,
less squared on those applied on the M.42s.On the M.33 really squared.
Tell me what difference you find between the runes on the M.33 and on
the M.42... really suspicious IMO.PaoloM
Your helmet:

Paolo,

telling the shield is different it does mean we are talking about different decals, isn't it ?
Btw, what make the difference between original and repro SS German decal ? May be the runes shape or more likely the shield shape, frame or runes position ?

Ric

[Ric Ferrari]

...I can publish only this, coming from a known published auction:
(check the runes...identical angles!)

I've other three of them coming from three different helmets.

Indeed the exact same decal I was referring to

Are you really convinced is the exact same decal ? I can't hear that form a well known specialized collector

....and without telling about dimension !

Ric

[Paolo Marzetti]

Are you really convinced is the exact same decal ? I can't hear that form a well known specialized collector
Ric

Ric,I've not to convice you....but if you want ,I'd be very happy to be convinced by your notes... And just to be clear,once for always, I'd be more glad than you that the helmet were good !!!
I cannot publish 1:1 photos of the decals in my archive without quoting the
unsolicited owners, but it looks very strange to me that the 'sitting' runes are larger than the German ones,in a larger shield either in the M.33 or in the
M.42, having the same drawing, and the same spaces.
I want this thread will proceed quitely....PaoloM

[Ric Ferrari]

Ric,I've not to convice you....but if you want ,I'd be very happy to be convinced by your notes... And just to be clear,once for always, I'd be more glad than you that the helmet were good !!!
I cannot publish 1:1 photos of the decals in my archive without quoting the
unsolicited owners, but it looks very strange to me that the 'sitting' runes are larger than the German ones,in a larger shield either in the M.33 or in the
M.42, having the same drawing, and the same spaces.
I want this thread will proceed quitely....PaoloM

Paolo,

please let's remain on the subject as I know very well how "experts" mentality does work in Italy.
Our duty is to offer to our overseas/European friends a reliable source to increase their interest in "our" militaria : a without prejudice and professional discussion about something never seen before is the less we can do for them, do you agree ?
Again and with all due respect, to say those decals are the same is equal to muddle up apples with pears, do you agree ?

Going back to the subject, I would love to hear comments by US/British/European German like camo paint experts, anyone out there ?

Ric

[Luca Ongaro]

Of course, if someone else is able to post the exact same decal (not a similar one) I will be more than happy

Best

Ric

I do not want give my opinion on the helmet posted by Ric without having in hands but I am agree with him about the decal, honestly is the first time I see one like that. Not the same of those you can see on well known fake SS decals.
Here two to compare.

[Luca Ongaro]

2

[flashider]

Flashider, Paolo,

I have been collecting German and Italian helmets (WWI & WWII) from 1980 up to 2000 and believe me I've had a lot of them in my hands over the years : to my experience that patina is without doubt original and the decal period applied.
The fact it's the first time collectors are able to see a decal like that, to me confirm it's not a mass produced repro.

Of course, if someone else is able to post the exact same decal (not a similar one) I will be more than happy

Best

Ric

Ric,

All experiences are based on what you want to believe...Are you conscious on "how many" a decal cost to a faker?
http://www.decalpaper.com

"If" I want sell a "big buck"....I can't make thousands of fakes SS M33s with the same configurations...because the collectors community could don't believe on them!!

Please don't be in bad feelings with me...but if you say that it has a "metallic" content (so for you it's very difficult to re-produce)...You don't know also the fake SS decals on german helmets...
I believe that, in "this forum", there are a lot of german helmets collectors that can explain you what I mean as a "very good" metallic and brilliant fake SS decal...
We are talking about a strange helmet, with a strange "probably fake" paintjob, with an unknow decal......what I can say?

I was waiting for an original period made photo where SSmen are wearing original Italian SS decals on helmets...I was not waiting for a "fake appearance" helmet photo with an unknow origin and a beautiful story
I always judge the object not the story!!

[flashider]

To what level of detail has this decal been magnified?

With nuclear microscopic instruments...I believe...