MVSN Visor!

[enorepap]

Hi Chris

Considering that you are by now addicted to the italian visors, I recommend you what is (in my own opinion) the finest italian period one: I referred to the 1938 full dress visor for Police (Public Security) officials. It was made of black wool with crimson (specifically amaranth) piping and polish black leather peak. The chincords were gold for ranks 3, 4 and 5 and gold intertwined with black silk for ranks from 6 to 11. In 1940 the three rows of piping were changed to gold. The front badge was a gold eagle (with royal crown and turned-up wings), bearing a Savoy shield on the chest and grasping with talons a Savoy knot, embroidered on crimson wool for ranks 3, 4, 5 and 6 and on black wool for ranks from 7 to 11. There were also less elaborate patterns for the service winter and summer uniforms. Unfortunately, I don't have an example within easy reach to show, but I make sure you that it is a really sensational (and very uncommon ) visor!

best regards

[stonemint]

Carlo and Enorepap--thank-you both for your help (Carlo, I had accidently deleted your email about what the cap was for). Italian headgear is more complex than I realized--a nice book on the topic is long overdue.

So, gentleman, I am correct that my "waffenfarbe" on this visor is Scarlet?
And is the War Office the equivalent of the OKW/OKH, or is it strictly a civilian department (ie, the equivalent of Government Officials of the TR?)

[enorepap]

Hi Chris

The War Office was the Defence Ministry. As in every nation, there were some departments managed by government civilian officials and others by military personnel. The cloth is scarlet and, in my opinion, your hat belonged to a very high State Official of that Ministry. As I said, visors showed the appurtenance Group and rank's class. Within the class, the specific rank was showed by a complex system of shoulder-boards and arm-bars, applied to the jacket. Subordinate personnel wore collar patches in the proper colour and an emailed pin on the left breast's side, over the decorations ribbon. Officers of the Armed Forces and Members of the Party organizations appointed to the Ministries retained their own uniforms. Army General Staff Officers had their own cap badge (an eagle very similar to the Army General Officers' one) and braids superimposed to the collar patches of their provenance's Corps.

Instead, the Headquarters of the Armed Forces were:

Comando Supremo delle Forze Armate = german OKW = Armed Forces Supreme Headquarters
Stato Maggiore Esercito = german OKH = Army General Staff
Stato Maggiore Marina = german OKM = Navy General Staff
Stato Maggiore Aeronautica = german OKL = Airforce General Staff

[enorepap]

Hi Stonemint

for your reference this is the Army style eagle:




enjoy the Italian 3-D embroidery art

[stonemint]

Ok, my Italian friends, I also have this cap--what is it for, and what rank?:

[stonemint]

3/4 view--this really has a nice profile:

[stonemint]

Side view--do the 3 gold bands signify rank?

[stonemint]

Side view--do the 3 gold bands signify rank?

[stonemint]

Chinstrap button--same insignia as on the front of the hat--Infantry?:

[stonemint]

Interior--one of the funkiest green linings I have ever seen:

[stonemint]

I have never seen this maker in an Italian hat before--Oreste Principato, Roma:

[enorepap]

Hallo Chris

This is an Infantry Captain (Schools and non-divisional units).
Yes, the gold bands signified officers' ranks:

Company officers: from 1 to 3 bands;
Field officers: a larger band and from 1 to 3 bands.

With respect to the maker, I have to say that PRINCIPATO is still in business in ROME as a well-renowned tailoring. It's offices are located in the main town, close to the Defence Ministry, the Presidential House, etc.
Consequently, he had a very selective output for refined customers: for instance, I have in my collection a black jacket made by PRINCIPATO for the last Commanding Officer of the MVSN Duce's Musketeers (in current language the Mussolini's bodyguards!)

best regards

[stonemint]

Thanks (again!) Enore! Like Italian food, these Italian caps can become addicting....