Panzer Unit Abbreviation ID - can anyone help?

[harrison987]

Hey guys,

This is on a belt I have:

Appears to be:

2./ Pz. A. A. (?) 3 1


My knowledge of abbreviations is limited...but obviously "Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung"...just cannot make out what is after the last "A"...and before the "1"

Thoughts?

[Waffenreich]

Looks more to me like 2./Pz. A. A. 13 I

[harrison987]

Hi!

You could be right on the "I"...

The one that "looks" like it should be a 1...appears to be a lower case "t"...

See below image.

Of course, that could just be an illusion...

The belt itself is dated 1938...and 2./Pz. A. A. 13 was formed in 1941...would this type of marking be on an early belt?

Mike

[Waffenreich]

Mike,

The crossbar on what you said looks like a "t" is now totally visible. I can also see a diagonal line jutting upwards from the left end of it. I believe it is actually a "4".

I am now 100 convinced this belt is marked to the 2 Kompanie/Panzerabwehrabteilung 43.

They were part of the 3d Light Division during the Polish campaign and then moved to the 8th Panzer Division after the reorg of Light Divisions.

Nice belt. Check your PMs

Best regards and happy New Year!

Bob

[Hans Kristian]

Pz. A.A. could also be Aufklärungsabteilung.

[Waffenreich]

Pz. A.A. could also be Aufklärungsabteilung.

Happy New Year HK.

We've established that it could be Aufklärungsabteilung, however the unit does not match the time period that equipment was being marked like this and I could find no reference to a Pz Aufklärungsabteilung 43. The unit number is "43". A close look at the newer picture he posted shows the crossbar and upper stroke.

Best regards!

Bob

[Johnny R]

Like Bob, I also think this is for the anti-tank unit. For stamps like this often abbreviations were shortened to single letters so Panzer Abwehr Abt. 43 seems more likely. That unit was formed in 1938.

[OSS]

I like Pz, A. A. 13 with a Roman numeral "I" following. Panzer Abwehr is typically indicated by Abw.. Also, I wouldn't expect to see these unit markings after 1937.

[Hans Kristian]

Happy New Year HK.

We've established that it could be Aufklärungsabteilung, however the unit does not match the time period that equipment was being marked like this and I could find no reference to a Pz Aufklärungsabteilung 43. The unit number is "43". A close look at the newer picture he posted shows the crossbar and upper stroke.

Best regards!

Bob

Hi Bob and Happy new year.

I did not think of checking if that unit existed before writing...my bad and thanks for the correction.

Best regards,

Hans Kristian

[Waffenreich]

I like Pz, A. A. 13 with a Roman numeral "I" following. Panzer Abwehr is typically indicated by Abw.. Also, I wouldn't expect to see these unit markings after 1937.

OSS - Happy New Year!

I agree that "typically" you see 'Abw", however it's definitely a "4" and Pz. A. A. 13 didn't come around till later - after they stopped marking equipment like this. Look closely at the stem of the first digit. You can clearly see the cross bar slightly below the half-way up point, and at the left tip of it you can see the black mark indicating the beginning of the diagonal upstroke.

Also, the belt is dated 1938 so the reference to "I wouldn't expect to see these unit markings after 1937" isn't necessarily true. I have/had a number of buckle tabs and belts, etc. made in 38 and 39 that are unit marked.

Look forward to chatting at the SOS

Regards!

Bob

[Daniele C]

Definately 2./Pz.... But are you sure that s "A. A...?3" after that? any better clear closeups? The 1 that you see at the end IMO is the I for Ist platoon.

[Waffenreich]

Definately 2./Pz.... But are you sure that s "A. A...?3" after that? any better clear closeups? The 1 that you see at the end IMO is the I for Ist platoon.

Ciao Daniele,

The letters are definitely "Pz. A. A."

The "I" is a grading classification indicating the condition of the belt at the time of issue. "I" indicates New, or Nearly New, and suitable for parade dress wear. Equipment or uniforms, etc. were not marked down to the platoon level (at least not on stamps like these).

Felice Anno Nuovo.

Bob

[Daniele C]

Thanks Bob, if you think it s definitely Pz.A.A.(Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung) having it in your hand then i believe you. I did not know about the markings on equipment to indicate the condition as i do not collect equipment, good to know!

[Waffenreich]

Thanks Bob, if you think it s definitely Pz.A.A.(Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung) having it in your hand then i believe you. I did not know about the markings on equipment to indicate the condition as i do not collect equipment, good to know!

Good afternoon Daniele,

I don't have it in my hand (although I did make Mike a reasonable offer and he has not gotten back to me).

I'm only going off the pictures and I believe it is not Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung for the reasons I stated below.

Best regards for 2020.

Bob