1st splinter patern Herr camouflage smock on Collector's guild

[andrew b]

pattern matches

[andrew b]

pattern match

[andrew b]

front , the same types of pattern can be found all over the smock

[andrew b]

, if any one has any explanations please let me know , I cant possibly see why if anyone was going to make a reproduction of this smock then why would they use a complete differant pattern , change the colours and remove the flffy bits and make it totally differant to the original splinter pattern , i have owned the smocks in question and i have a gut feeling that i have stumbled on something that might re write the camo books

I HOPE IAM RIGHT

andy

[John Hodgin]

Hi Andrew,

Your heavy, padded winter jacket is authentic. The "hard edged" Sumpf is illustrated well in Michael Beaver's SS camo book; trousers of it can be found in the comparative camo section in the back on page 287. It is scarce, but not ultra rare; Willi and I have Luftwaffe jump smocks made from it. The pattern is a varation and does not represent a significant change in design.

Regards,
John

[andrew b]

Hi Andrew,

Your heavy, padded winter jacket is authentic. The "hard edged" Sumpf is illustrated well in Michael Beaver's SS camo book; trousers of it can be found in the comparative camo section in the back on page 287. It is scarce, but not ultra rare; Willi and I have Luftwaffe jump smocks made from it. The pattern is a varation and does not represent a significant change in design.

Regards,
John

Hi John
iam not saying that the parka is rare , if you read about this topic its about a heer smock which does not have a reconised splinter pattern , The pattern it has turns out to be the marsh 43 as above but done like splinter , thats what rare , have a look back at the heer smock and compare it to the marsh 43 ,this has never been seen before and i dont know if its experimental ,or a batch of or what ,but it aint reconised as either
regards
andy

[John Hodgin]

Hi Andy,

You posted so many photos of the parka that thought you were asking about it as well. So you are asking about the HBT smock?

They are scarce, but jumpsmocks are found with "reversed" patterns. That is, splinter pattern printed in Sumpf colors. Is this what you are asking about? I am away from home and do not have the time to reread this entire thread.
Regards,
John

[andrew b]

Hi Andy,

You posted so many photos of the parka that thought you were asking about it as well. So you are asking about the HBT smock?

They are scarce, but jumpsmocks are found with "reversed" patterns. That is, splinter pattern printed in Sumpf colors. Is this what you are asking about? I am away from home and do not have the time to reread this entire thread.
Regards,
John

Hi John
The 1st heer smocks were supposed to be made in HBT and only in splinter pattern , this smock in question has the marsh 43 pattern without the blurred edges and the colours , so basically its a marsh 43 pattern but made in heer splinter colours
regards
andy
any help much appreciated

[werner p.]

Compare !!

Andy,
do what I did... put the smock next to the parka
look for similar designs and COMPARE ...

be ware of the cold shower ....

PS splinter and sumpf patterns DO differ in details but the bulk of the pattern remains.
werner

[junior]

...Thanks for this very interesting thread!
Junior

[andrew b]

comparrisons

sorry for dragging this on but its all gone quiet and iam trying like hell to find out one way or another if this is real or repo , I have emailed and spoke to werner and i am still continuing down certain lines , I would just ask people for any views and also to look at this splinter parka that is on this forum and compare , i do know there are slight match differances , but could this of been a genuine fault in the printing process as it was on HBT which is a soft material , apart from that the smock has some patterns that match the marsh 43 exactly [thread 104 ,106] and match the splinter parka , but its not 100% either , this is why i am wondering if it could have been a trial pattern between the splinter and marsh as the germans were well known for experimenting and improving their camo
Lastly i know people will not except it because its not reconised but if this was a very bad attemt to make a repo why would there be so much pain steaking detail in the construction of these smocks take a look at the bigger picture of the smock on page 3 it has one joint in the neck reinforcement and three joints in the waist fastener reinforcement which are perfectly done and why if it was a repo wouldnt they just use one peice , instead of all the hassle and then go and make a complete shambles out of the camo which would be the most important detail .

[andrew b]

splinter smock,

[Guy]

Was there not a time when the splinter and hard edged sumpf patterns were being produced concurrently? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the rollers were mixed up producing this strange hybrid.

Just a thought.

Yours, Guy

[djpool]

Hi andy,

I haven't given up on trying to help you out. Unfortunately everything I find just weakens your case for proving the smock is original. I pulled out a bunch of my camo and looked at the repeating patterns. As most are aware THE CAMO PATTERN REPEATS ITSELF every (SO MANY INCHES). The repeated pattern is almost identical to the previous one. It doesn't appear thats the case in your smock.The designs appear to be off. Could be photography, but I don't think so.If you pull a splinter zeltbahn and compare the repeating patterns you'll see what I'm talking about.

As a side note your pattern repeats horizontally. On my smock and I think the one in Werners book repeat vertically. I'm sure they were produced both ways.

Heres a sample of a good repeating patter. The top one came from your parka.The splinter came from a jacket of mine.Look how precisely the patterns match each other.

Jim

[djpool]

Now heres the first pic of the smocks repeating patterns.Check the areas in red against the same pattern thats not marked.