Generals uniform help...

[david stone]

Greeting, all...I just got back from a very interesting trip to identify some veteran bringback items. Some crusty old SS and Army officers daggers, a couple of WWI decorations, and a pretty nice Drilling rifle. They also said they had an old uniform "of some kind, maybe an officers." I actually expected it to be a Feuerwehr or maybe Polizei uniform.
Well, out from the bag comes a pair of grey trousers with red Lampassen down the sides. I think my eyes got pretty big! Sure enough, there was a matching tunic to it! Six button front, I believe. Eagle and collar tabs and shoulder boards were in Cellon, or non-metallic gold. Boards had two pips, large but not the giant kind. Lining, a sort of dark greyish material, sleeves white with a pattern of little dots. No name, marking, tailors label visible in the light we had. Condition - some of the buttons are corroded. Moths have made some small holes here and there. Inside the collar is a little eaten. Bottom of the cuffs are a little eaten - several holes there. Trousers had been somewhat crudely taken in at the rear seam, but it looked really quite unworn. There was a slight brownish stain at one shoulder. It would probably clean up nicely, but I advised the folks to do absolutely nothing to it, especially not take it to one of the cleaners around here.
Of course they wanted to know what it was worth. All I could say was "alot". I explained to them how the cap should look, and the belt, and gloves, and even shoes. I also forbid them to throw away anything they didn't know exactly what was!!
Now, the vast majority of Generals stuff I've see I'm pretty sure was fake, but I'm 100% certain this is real. Can someone here give me a ballpark figure of what a slightly motheaten Generals tunic and trousers would go for?
No decorations, but thread loops for a long ribbon bar, and loops for four or five badges.
I'll have them bring my everything they can find, evidently the veteran was a driver for a US general in an airborne unit. Might be possible to identify the German general yet. He was tall - I'm about 176cm and the trousers were way too long for me - and not fat at all.
So any help at all on just a ballpark value for such a thing would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

[Gary Cain]

Hi Dave,

Not a lot of info to go on but I will give it a shot. First off was there a red facing on the tunic? You don't mention whether there is one and to be a generals tunic it must have that. Assuming that it does, the tunic and pants for an unknown general is in the 4,000-6,000 range. Obviously if the gentleman was a RK winner that number would go up.

Gary

Greeting, all...I just got back from a very interesting trip to identify some veteran bringback items. Some crusty old SS and Army officers daggers, a couple of WWI decorations, and a pretty nice Drilling rifle. They also said they had an old uniform "of some kind, maybe an officers." I actually expected it to be a Feuerwehr or maybe Polizei uniform.
Well, out from the bag comes a pair of grey trousers with red Lampassen down the sides. I think my eyes got pretty big! Sure enough, there was a matching tunic to it! Six button front, I believe. Eagle and collar tabs and shoulder boards were in Cellon, or non-metallic gold. Boards had two pips, large but not the giant kind. Lining, a sort of dark greyish material, sleeves white with a pattern of little dots. No name, marking, tailors label visible in the light we had. Condition - some of the buttons are corroded. Moths have made some small holes here and there. Inside the collar is a little eaten. Bottom of the cuffs are a little eaten - several holes there. Trousers had been somewhat crudely taken in at the rear seam, but it looked really quite unworn. There was a slight brownish stain at one shoulder. It would probably clean up nicely, but I advised the folks to do absolutely nothing to it, especially not take it to one of the cleaners around here.
Of course they wanted to know what it was worth. All I could say was "alot". I explained to them how the cap should look, and the belt, and gloves, and even shoes. I also forbid them to throw away anything they didn't know exactly what was!!
Now, the vast majority of Generals stuff I've see I'm pretty sure was fake, but I'm 100% certain this is real. Can someone here give me a ballpark figure of what a slightly motheaten Generals tunic and trousers would go for?
No decorations, but thread loops for a long ribbon bar, and loops for four or five badges.
I'll have them bring my everything they can find, evidently the veteran was a driver for a US general in an airborne unit. Might be possible to identify the German general yet. He was tall - I'm about 176cm and the trousers were way too long for me - and not fat at all.
So any help at all on just a ballpark value for such a thing would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

[david stone]

There is red piping on the turnaback cuffs, red piping down the front, and I'm pretty sure it was also around the collar. The trousers have red piping with two broad red stripes sewn down either side. Collar tabs and boards are underlaid with fine red wool, but if you mean by "facings", a red lining like on the lapels of a generals greatcoat, it doesn't have that.
Many thanks for the ballpark figure, I did tell them when they pressed me for the rough value "maybe around 4,000". I'm hoping if they find the cap there just might be a name tag inside of it...
Would the value be higher if the fellow had the RK, or simply if the identity of the wearer was known?
The only decorations they had so far was a WWI EKII and a War Merit Cross in poor shape, also a War Merit Cross with sworts from WWII. No ribbons on any of them.
Might there be any special fitments or thread loops or anything on the uniform for a RK? I didn't notice anything there, but there were a few loose threads where it appeared something was tacked to the front of the left shoulder.
Many thanks for the info. I'll try to get some photos out of them to show later, if any one is interested.

Many thanks for your help!

Dave

Not a lot of info to go on but I will give it a shot. First off was there a red facing on the tunic? You don't mention whether there is one and to be a generals tunic it must have that. Assuming that it does, the tunic and pants for an unknown general is in the 4,000-6,000 range. Obviously if the gentleman was a RK winner that number would go up.

Gary[/QUOTE]

[DaveJ]

Photos are always welcome

[Rick Research]

If the rank is correct and pips have not been jammed in by some idiot to "upgrade" a Generalmajor, the EMPTY award loops on a General der Whateverbranch MIGHT identify the holder simply from what is-- and isn't-- there.

Remember-- there were a lot of old retreaded from retirement types who were NOT frontline commanders... but a two-pipper is going to be much less difficult to sort out than a lower rank.

Especially significant at such a preliminary stage would be whether there were loops on the left pocket for an EK1 AND Spange... or not. And what OTHER pinback loops there were.

And of course scans are essential.

[david stone]

No, this uniform hasn't been messed with at all. It has lain undisturbed for many years. It hasn't been "upgraded" by anyone because until I saw it over the weekend the folks who had it had no idea what on earth it was. I was really tempted to ask to borrow it and return them a VOPO uniform - they really wouldn't have known the difference. The pips have been on that board since 1945. Those pips are crusted on pretty well. They are most likely zinc, come to think of it.
As to the thread loops, there were about eight places in a single row for ribbon bars. I think three badges were mounted vertically on the middle of the pocket, one at the lower left hand side, and oddly - to me - there was one on the upper corner of the pocket. One thread loop is on the flap itself and the other on the top of the pocket.
I didn't even think to search the buttonholes for any trace of a ribbon being in there. But I think I would have noticed if there was any thread left. I remember pointing out the two seams to splice together the inner facings, to save cloth.
I hope to wrangle some pictures out of them soon - it might even inspire them to buy their own camera, who knows! Maybe I'll get them to buy ME one!!
Thanks everyone for your help - I'll have to ask somebody to post photos for me when I get some.

Thanks!

Dave

If the rank is correct and pips have not been jammed in by some idiot to "upgrade" a Generalmajor, the EMPTY award loops on a General der Whateverbranch MIGHT identify the holder simply from what is-- and isn't-- there.

Remember-- there were a lot of old retreaded from retirement types who were NOT frontline commanders... but a two-pipper is going to be much less difficult to sort out than a lower rank.

Especially significant at such a preliminary stage would be whether there were loops on the left pocket for an EK1 AND Spange... or not. And what OTHER pinback loops there were.

And of course scans are essential.

[Rick Research]

Try and get precise millimeter measurements on the OUTSIDE of each set of loops, as well as spacing from each other. Whatever hung on there originally was designed to fit snugly, and neither bounce nor touch adjoining pieces.

What you mention about the weirdly placed pair of loops suggests a foreign breast star (correct for that rank, certainly) being placed someplace "out of the way" where it didn't interfere with a belt or clang on awards that WERE worn every day. You will see such glitterin' exotica being worn in formal portraits or on visits to Axis allies.

A good sign.

[Steve Sherlock]

Hi Dave,

Not a lot of info to go on but I will give it a shot. First off was there a red facing on the tunic? You don't mention whether there is one and to be a generals tunic it must have that. Assuming that it does, the tunic and pants for an unknown general is in the 4,000-6,000 range. Obviously if the gentleman was a RK winner that number would go up.

Gary

I'm not sure what Gary meant here either by "red facing". I read that to mean piping on the cuffs, collar, and/or down the front. If that's the case, lots of general's tunics did not have it.

ss

[david stone]

Kicking the dust off an old thread - I was finally sent some photos of this uniform...unfortunately not of any super close ups, but they might be of interest. Would anyone be so kind as to offer to post them for me?

Thanks,

Dave

[Al P]

And here are the pictures:

[Al P]

2

[Al P]

3

[Al P]

4

[Al P]

5

[Al P]

6