Split-tongue shoulder boards with red piping and "S1" cyphers

[Maxoumilitaria]

Hi guys,

I would like to hear your opinion about these shoulder boards, concerning both the authenticity and the unit.

Concerning the authenticity, when I compare these boards with other split-tongue ones I have, I find the construction almost too perfect. On top of that, the boards don't really smell how 70 year-old boards usually do. What's your feeling about them being original?

Concerning the unit, looking at the "German army shoulder straps and shoulder boards" (page 60), the "S1" would possibly indicate the Artillerie Schule 1. The Waffenfarbe appears weirdly on the picture but it's a classical artillery red. Anyone able to confirm or refute that?


Thanks a lot!

best,

Max

[Stive]

Judging by the photo it is pink piping, and shoulder straps respectively anti-tank

[Maxoumilitaria]

Thanks for the answer but as described in the first post, the piping is definitely artillery red, it just comes out strangely on these pictures.

[OSS]

One rarely knows for certain when (or for what reason) metal ciphers were applied. I would generally think this combination would be for an early Schutzen Regiment, but possibly indicates an Artillery School.

[afrikasandman]

The cyphers are added by someone who doesn’t know what they are doing. The S1 is suppose to be for Schutzen Rgt 1 and not for The Artillery school. The boards are late war in my opinion so Schutzen rgts were long gone by that point.

Original late war boards that someone messed with post war. Matt

[Sonnenwende]

Agree: later war boards pimped with cyphers indicating a Schützen Regiment.

Regards
Sonnenwende

[footiefan]

Hi Max

With regards to your boards they are late war utilizing stocks available to make them for distribution...hence these being in almost unissued state, they are for an Officer candidate (Offzier Anwarter) hence the double ring tress, they are not panzer though the colour seems to indicate this as cameras always make the rayon lighter, more so when red.

The S and number 1 indicates that the boards are indeed for Branch schools (Schule der Waffengattungen) these were various branch colours not covered by those indicated both in the book and in service.

Schutzen Regiments did exist right up until the end of the war, even if the wearing of cyphers and numbers were long discontinued for security reasons esp when at the front.

Hope this help
David

[Johnny R]

If the devices are original to the boards and the piping is red they would be correct for "Artillerieschule I" which was in Berlin until 1944 and then moved to Meißen.

Open wear of unit insignia of "slides" was reordered in early 1944 and reinstated for wear of all soldiers again. The insignia had been worn openly on dress uniforms etc. before and the orders were often disregarded aside from when units moved from one theater to another etc.

[Maxoumilitaria]

Thanks a lot for your answers!!

Concerning the Waffenfarbe, here is another picture with sun light showing it clearly red.

It is true that a gothic "S" + a number often indicate a Schützen-Regiment but that's not surely not the only use (again referring to Misters Suter and Suter's book, it can also be used for other cases, among them the branch schools). Therefore I wouldn't rule them as "added post-war" solely on that fact -->

Now I still can't tell if the cyphers are original to the boards: both the boards and the cypher are so mint that I can't even detect a ghost of the cyphers on the board. Somehow that gives me a strange feeling of "too mint / too new".

If we only speak about the boards themselves, you guys seem to generally see them as original am I right?

[TWS]

IMO, original late boards. I have an identical single in my collection minus the cyphers.

As for the cyphers, hard to tell when they were added on minty boards. Usually I look for matching wear, natural versus fake aging in line with condition of the board, and impression into the board. In short the "look like they have always been there" effect.

[longislandercjv]

It is unusual to see M40 or later straps with metal cyphers.
As previously stated, cyphers for those straps are usually chainstitched
or embroidered on slip tabs.
These straps and cyphers are mint, but after 70+ years mated together,
I'd expect some indication of same...
As several of my sammlerkameraden have noted, there seems to be many
"tape tongue" straps turning up recently....
(however, I agree that the straps shown here are original.

[Johnny R]

Officers candidates wore metal insignia on their shoulder boards entering NCO type ranks I believe starting with Unteroffizier by regulation as did permanent party or cadre at the Schools. Even Privates by regulation wore metal insignia when assigned permanently to schools.

[Maxoumilitaria]

Thanks for your answers guys!

@Johnny: thanks for the information about regulations, I didn't know that. It's actually matching a NCO M44 board from an Infantry School that I have and that always has a gothic S cypher on it.

Cheers,

Max

[Tim O'Keefe]

Agree with Matt & others,

Count me in for nice original straps, postwar placement of the cyphers.