Original Tropical Tunic or HSC Fake!

[djpool]

HI,

Here are some pictures of a tropical tunic made from what I believe to be Italian material. I've had the tunic about 10 years and I personally like it. I found out in the last few months that the firm of HSC (Mannys favorite) produced a copy in the same style. Is the one I have a HSC copy? I've never seen the copy so I have no point of reference as far as what to look for.

Here are the pictures.When I got the tunic there was no insignia or buttons present.So I tacked on the insignia.

[djpool]

As you can see the inside uses several types of materials in its construction. I've seen similar materials used in private purchase tunics.



Heres the inside of one of the pockets. Whats interesting is there is reinforcement made from SS Dot Camo, where the removable buttons are inserted.While not easy to see there are 5 colors present.



You can faintly see where collar tabs were originally sewn on.



details of the sleeve.



Paper button.

[djpool]

DETAILS OF THE BUTTON HOLES.



Markings on the bolt of cloth to help match colors when the tunic is sewn together.





You can see traces of where a breast eagle was previousily applied.When I got it you could tell it was a M44 style eagle.



Size markings. Similar to some seen on some M44 tunics.

[derspiess63]

Hi bud,
this tunic is POSITIVELY,ABSOLUTELY genuine!I like it a lot and it's a pity your specimen came without insigna!I've had several tunics like this one with matching M43 style trousers and each and every one of them had tropical insigna originally sewn on!
They were made in Italy and in Austria or Germany with liberated Regio Esercito Tropical fabric(s) and are very, very interesting....I let them all go but now I regret that...hope to find one next may in Milan!
Manny

[djpool]

Hi bud,
this tunic is POSITIVELY,ABSOLUTELY genuine!I like it a lot and it's a pity your specimen came without insigna!I've had several tunics like this one with matching M43 style trousers and each and every one of them had tropical insigna originally sewn on!
They were made in Italy and in Austria or Germany with liberated Regio Esercito Tropical fabric(s) and are very, very interesting....I let them all go but now I regret that...hope to find one next may in Milan!
Manny

Manny,

Thanks for the thumbs up! It would have been nice if the insignia was still on it..but beggars can't be choosers.Actually I bought this from a dealer/collector I knew at one of those small shows in Germany, that the big dealers steered away from. Now 4 years ago we moved to AZ and I met another collector who recognized the tunic.He picked it up in a flea market and sold the tunic. He still had the pants which I have now.The pants are unmarked and a slightly different shade, which is a plus to me.Most copy matching sets are too perfect.

They don't seem to be that common either.I think I saw a similar tunic on the Collectors Guild site last year.Other than that I've never run into another one.

Regards Jim

[alexandre]

I agree with Manny ,
A nice original tunic !

This tunic was not issued for a tropical ( or mediterannean ) use for me , the shape is just similar to an classical continental HBT tunic with 6 buttons and neck hook made with the material available late in the war .
I' ve seen these made out of Tan HBT , ribbed cotton , and different captured material...all the time with continental insigna .

Regards ,

[francis006]

Alexandre,
My pants are also in the HBT cut
Manny and Jim, did you see another cut ?

[TONY Q.W.]

Hi bud,
this tunic is POSITIVELY,ABSOLUTELY genuine!I like it a lot and it's a pity your specimen came without insigna!I've had several tunics like this one with matching M43 style trousers and each and every one of them had tropical insigna originally sewn on!
They were made in Italy and in Austria or Germany with liberated Regio Esercito Tropical fabric(s) and are very, very interesting....I let them all go but now I regret that...hope to find one next may in Milan!
Manny

Now this is what I call VALUABLE and GENUINE knowledge.....way to go Manny and once again glad to have you here . (I personally had no clue regarding this jacket).

[derspiess63]

I agree with Manny ,
A nice original tunic !

This tunic was not issued for a tropical ( or mediterannean ) use for me , the shape is just similar to an classical continental HBT tunic with 6 buttons and neck hook made with the material available late in the war .
I' ve seen these made out of Tan HBT , ribbed cotton , and different captured material...all the time with continental insigna .

Regards ,

I agree with Alexandre( ),
it was a summer tunic cut in the same style as the HBT one and other fabrics were "pressed into service" as well,and I forgot to add that I've also had a few of these made with "ordinary" German tropical fabric!This very same Italian fabric was widely used in the making of third model "tropical" tunics of which I've had several as well....too bad I haven't taken detailed pictures of them...it would have been nice to compare the markings and,again, they all had "tropical" insigna sewn!
The trousers I've owned were all cut like the HBT combat trousers, patterned after the dickerstoff keilhose bar for the reinforcement on the seat!
Our friend and fellow member Gerard Stezelberger of Relic Hunter's fame has one of these trousers listed...and I regret having let mine go....what a dumb-a## move...it rubs elbows with the other one...read selling all my pairs of FJ boots because "I wasn't into jumpin' dudes" !
Whastever.......very nice tunic,chockfulkl of very fascinating details!
Manny

[djpool]

I agree with Alexandre( ),
it was a summer tunic cut in the same style as the HBT one and other fabrics were "pressed into service" as well,and I forgot to add that I've also had a few of these made with "ordinary" German tropical fabric!This very same Italian fabric was widely used in the making of third model "tropical" tunics of which I've had several as well....too bad I haven't taken detailed pictures of them...it would have been nice to compare the markings and,again, they all had "tropical" insigna sewn!
The trousers I've owned were all cut like the HBT combat trousers, patterned after the dickerstoff keilhose bar for the reinforcement on the seat!
Our friend and fellow member Gerard Stezelberger of Relic Hunter's fame has one of these trousers listed...and I regret having let mine go....what a dumb-a## move...it rubs elbows with the other one...read selling all my pairs of FJ boots because "I wasn't into jumpin' dudes" !
Whastever.......very nice tunic,chockfulkl of very fascinating details!
Manny

alexandre, Manny et al,

Very intersting comments. My personal belief that this was a distinct pattern of tunic that was a compromise between the standard Tropical Tunics and HBT tunics. It hasn't been discussed in any of the reference books I know of. I've seen them described as a tropical tunic variant. I don't think this is the case, IMO these tunics were designed for continental wear as alexandre mentioned. The tunic shown above distinctly shows that a M44 eagle was applied.

I also believe this style of tunic went through the same simplification process as the Tropical and HBT tunics I.E. 1st model, 2d Model and 3d Model. Here is another production tunic made from a Grey Green cloth almost identical to standard german tropical cloth. It has the 6 removable buttons to the front, as well as all pockets. The simplified lining material appears to be normal tropical material. The collar has been replaced but the eagle appears to be originally applied. This one is dated 42. I think this could be the first model of what ever pattern collectors call this style. I'm sure there are tunics out there that have scallops to the pockets with no pleats in this same style.

Anyway just my humble opinion.Regards Jim

[hcliffe]

Notice the RBN#r which starts with a "1". Some theories suggest that RBN#r's starting with "0" were made in Germany, while other initial digits were made in other countries. So perhaps this helps solve more of the RBN# mystery. Perhaps all items starting with "1" were made in Italy....

[djpool]

Notice the RBN#r which starts with a "1". Some theories suggest that RBN#r's starting with "0" were made in Germany, while other initial digits were made in other countries. So perhaps this helps solve more of the RBN# mystery. Perhaps all items starting with "1" were made in Italy....

Harry,

Certainly seems logical to me. I know some of the folks out there have tried to sort out the RBN mystery.Maybe this will spark some more discussion.Jim

[djpool]

Last week I had the opportunity to meet a new collector in the area.As we were going thru his fantastic collection he pulled out his Tropical tunics and lo an behold, there was a close relative of my tunic that started this thread. There were some differences-

-His is a direct vet bringback and its never been in another collection.
-His was worn and theres some light fading.
-His has the original insignia.Standard Tropical breast eagle (sewn in the M44 style), tropical collar tabs and boards made from the same italian cloth.
- His is dated 45 and the RBN starts with 0
-His would be what I call the second model, scalloped pocket flaps, but unpleated pockets
-The button holes were reinforced with plain cloth as opposed to the SS cloth on mine.

In every other respect it was identical to mine. I didn't compare them side by side so there could be other differences as well.

Hopefully in the future I can photograph his example and post it here.

Jim