DAK set for review

[Johnny R]

Usually the family does not want it released. Based on information I found I think he may still be alive and would be 96 years old now.

Knowing the name will not help figure out if it is real in any case etc. Everything I am seeing looks okay.

The only thing I am confused about is the "four feather eagle". I do not collect tropical items but I was always told by patch and tropical collectors that these breast eagles were incorrect copies made from following the cap eagle design? Is that not true? Fred said it was a manufacturing issue.

[Dermot Foley]

The tropical breast eagle in question is not like the modern four feather fake and it's neck feathers do not extend onto the wings like that fake.

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=118

http://afrikakorps.forumcrea.com/viewtopic.php?id=1671

D

[90th Light]

It would be interesting to see the lining and inside of the tunic.

Modified EM/ NCO tunic or tailor made for an officer later during the war in first pattern style or post war fake ???

Chris

So the "tailor made for an officer later during the war in first pattern style" wins the day

The uneasy feeling is now being replaced by the WOW factor

Part of the challenge with this one, was trying to decide good from bad based on computer images that were not the greatest of photos to start off with. Nothing beats holding such a tunic in hand and also seeing the whole grouping in its entirety from the start, to get the holistic overview of the item.

As already stated, that tropical eagle is a first for me. The tunic, a good example of a period made variation from the text book norm that can be out there.

Very interesting thread and very rare officer tropical tunic with possible late Afrika connection,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

With the added photos it is confirmed as a custom tailored jacket made to look like the earlier standard 1st pattern. This explains most of the questions like the french cuffs, the angle of the upper pocket corners, same thread used to attach the tropical eagle and the tabs, the eagle application etc. Why this Eagle is used is still a question to ponder ?

After all the tunic is ok. The way it was presented initially did not contribute as well as it might have.

[NickG]

I, for one am favorably impressed by the photos and am leaning towards acceptance of your grouping as complete and untouched. The tunic appears to be tailor-made in the style of an issue tunic; this would explain the anomalies in construction, such as the French cuffs, lack of belt supports and markings and possibly even eagle placement. The tunic appears to be the one being worn by your officer in the photo of him leaning back in a chair. The grouping is fantastic, with the continental tunic and period studio portrait particularly appealing. I also like the album photos of early Nebelwerfer troops. The boots still concern me as they are not issue, but may well be private purchase, like the tunic. Many thanks.

Agreed, a custom made tropical tunic (hence some anomalies which raised concerns).
A spectacular grouping with interesting documentation! Congratulations!
Was there any Nebel farbe headgear in this group? Now that would be the icing on the cake!

[Johnny R]

HI Tim, if you are refering to my comments, I am not questioning the eagle, I was told for probably 20 years since the fakes appeared on a large scale that these were bad, across the board when seen with 4 feathers. This was new information for me.

The private purchase officers "tropical" tunics I have seen before as I am sure many others also have.

Officers were given an allowance for a tailor-made tropical set including a overcoat, many times even a cape and a service set etc. They tended to wear issue garments in the field but some of these private sets survived, most I have seen are almost mint and do not look worn at all.

As I mentioned, I suspect he was only in Africa a very short time. The CT is not worn on his later service overcoat or jacket. He probably did not meet the time in theatre requirements for the CT of at least 3 months with an illness. The tunic probably came home with him and went into storage.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Johnny

No not meant directly but maybe on similar track. Thanks for the added info.
My question as to why this four feather "freak" eagle was the type used on this nice jacket ? It has not been found on an original tunic to my knowledge ? Fred has a study on this type of four feather eagle. Which is not the same as the modern fake four feather which is modeled after caps as Dermot mentions post #47. The spacing of the four feathers is different between this eagle and the modern fake. Location aside, Nick will hit me on this one

The Hotel receipt is interesting,, likely the last few nights in Afrika for him. Soldbuch around ?

[Johnny R]

It is dated only a day before the major surrenders started? Maybe he barely got out.

[NCO]

Interesting , not sure I'm convinced for reasons stated above.
cheers
NCO

[Lukasz78]

Interesting , not sure I'm convinced for reasons stated above.
cheers
NCO

Sorry, i'm not good in english, and i don't know exactly what You men, can You explain it to me, then perhaps we will try to convince You or figure it out for You, but i dont know what.
I think that nobody likes the opinions which are equally meritless, if neither offer any support or reasoning.

[Lukasz78]

Agreed, a custom made tropical tunic (hence some anomalies which raised concerns).
A spectacular grouping with interesting documentation! Congratulations!
Was there any Nebel farbe headgear in this group? Now that would be the icing on the cake!

From what i know there was not. I have other interesting stuff of that person, like few pairs of stockings, bandana and the watch.
Somebody my don't know this or believe it, but basing on this example i can tell that DAK use them.
Take a look at the size (this is the Europen size 9,5 = 44) - or maybe german ladies have that kind of nice feet ;-)


The watch is interesting, i don't know about the watches, but i saw the same on the photo from Bundesarchiv

[90th Light]

From what i know there was not. I have other interesting stuff of that person, like few pairs of stockings, bandana and the watch.
Somebody my don't know this or believe it, but basing on this example i can tell that DAK use them.
Take a look at the size (this is the Europen size 9,5 = 44) - or maybe german ladies have that kind of nice feet ;-)

If he had vagarious veins and was sent to Afrika then that could explain it.

"There is nothing that can be done to prevent varicose veins. It would be impossible to remain permanently off your feet, which is a good way to reduce the pressure in the veins. If you are on your feet the best thing to do is to keep moving, as walking tends to lower the pressure in the veins. Compression stockings can be very helpful in lessening symptoms and an improvement in symptoms when wearing stockings can be an indication that treatment for the veins will be helpful."

You can read all the details here for those who want to know more;

http://www.vascular.co.nz/Varicose_veins.htm

My uncle suffered vagarious veins in North Africa between 1941 to 1943. He was a supply convey driver who drove mostly petrol tankers but also tank transporters, ammo trucks and sometimes troop transports

He said driving all day, every day and sleeping on the ice-cold desert floor at night was absolute torture on his legs. Later in life he had to wear a compression stocking on one leg every day. They cut that leg off when turned 70. The doctor said damage to the veins had been accelerated during WW2. Mind you, he was philosophical about it, stating that not that many NZ petrol tanker drivers survived the Stukas and ME109's of North Africa to spend their 70th birthday in hospital. Petrol tankers were always a favorite target that they went for first when attacking a convey,

Chris

[Fred Green]

Hello,

Here is a picture of a typical weaving flaw on a BeVo eagle in the small wing area. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...560177&page=11 post #163 Posted by Sal

Fred

This whole set appears put together. I've yet to see an original breast eagle with this feather configuration as well as setting on the breast.
NOT German tropical boots.
I think some research is in order, sir. Marcin (Anmarlodz) does know what he's talking about.
Regards,
Mark.

[90th Light]

Hello,

Here is a picture of a typical weaving flaw on a BeVo eagle in the small wing area. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...560177&page=11 post #163 Posted by Sal

Fred

Good find Fred and many thanks. That image clearly shows the exact type of manufacturing fault. The eagle is a period "factory second"

However, some have expressed concern about the positioning of the eagle on the tunic and how it has been sewn on, for what they feel purports to be a private/tailor made example.

Weighing up all points of view, I am leaning on the fence while still trying to glean as much as I can from the top image in post number 25. This is definitely a tunic, one would need to hold in hand to say more but I like it more than I do not,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Fred for posting the eagle with a similar detail to the threadstarter.
Still not sure why a tailor would use this type ? Surely would not go unnoticed at the time ?

Personally would like to see the jacket in the lower portion of post #25, that is a real Afrikan veteran standard 3rd pattern officer up-grade

It's to bad you can not see the eagle on the jacket in upper post #25, would like to see a period photo of that jacket full length not sitting down leaning backwords....