Waffenrock-Cavalry-Holters

[NickG]

Good military unit research Johnny. It does not change the fact that the name is a German "Adelsname"
Their Adelsbrief (appointment) dates back to 1858 (but not necessarily having an "Adelstitel" which is "Titulierte Adelsname",
like Baron, Graf or Freiherr), therefor the Johanniter Kreuz makes sense. It is a prerequisite to be bestowed this award...(at that time)
If you find such a breast decoration attached to a tunic of lets say; a "Muller" or "Schmidt" or "Schneider", that would be a red flag.
This combination makes sense! Just something I wanted to add in addition to the military research! Nice Waffenrock!

[Johnny R]

It is nice to see you talking about facts for a change with regard to uniforms.

[NickG]

It is nice to see you talking about facts for a change with regard to uniforms.

My pleasure to return the favor and educate you for once!
Here is an amazing BW picture with the neck order variant and some other tin!!

[Johnny R]

You did not educate me on anything lol. I researched the tunic over 6 months ago.

[NickG]

You did not educate me on anything lol. I researched the tunic over 6 months ago.

Good! No need for education! Glad to hear you were already up to speed on the Johanniter Kreuz Ritter matters! (order of St.Johns).
I certainly was not. It was through my sister-in-law's own knighthood, that I found out about this stuff...Man you are so well rounded Johnny!

[Johnny R]

It was a fairly common award to see in Imperial times with nobility and with higher ranking officers in WWII. I have seen the award on several General Ranks tunics. The German order is an off shoot of a more ancient order associated with the crusades and the Knights of Malta. I have a relative who is a "knight" too. We try to visit him in the asylum at least twice a year.

You can read more about it here-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller

and the German organization which is here-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...of_Brandenburg)

[WW2-Collector]

Many thanks guys for the reply's - Johnny certainly is my go to guy for cloth questions and officer research and as always appreciate his help and knowledge its unsurpassed on cloth he is the total package I now do have a researcher looking at the NARA for Von Kries file and keeping my fingers crossed its there should know in a few weeks. This uniform slipped through my fingers once but came back around to me a month later and was able to pick it up from a fellow Texan who bought it in a grouping of stuff. Correct me if I am wrong but the Johanniter order on this rock is not a military award but just shows his membership in the order ?

[WW2-Collector]

Beautiful Holters Waffenrock with undoubtedly original applied tags and in my favourite Waffenfarbe to boot and those Aufkl. cyphers are really nice.

I can't quite make out the name on the acceptance stamp...is it 'Stregs'?

Here is my A.A. Holters...

JC beautiful Holters ! The stamp is hard to make out and faint ! Several of my Holters waffenrock the stamp is either not present or faded away to time ! We know they used several different ones though.

[NickG]

Many thanks guys for the reply's Correct me if I am wrong but the Johanniter order on this rock is not a military award but just shows his membership in the order ?

Here some info! (link below)
Indeed not a military award which is why it was not always worn (Von Stauffenberg example) and since the "TR powers to be" frowned upon it,
(sign of aristocracy-noble heritage) it was perhaps even less worn than what could have been (plenty of recipients serving in the armed forces during WW2)

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hanitter+kreuz




.

[Johnny R]

It is more than a birthright, it is a Order of knighthood etc. not limited to nobility more related to being awarded for helping hospitals acting honorably to help others etc. etc. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...of_Brandenburg)

[Johnny R]

Many thanks guys for the reply's - Johnny certainly is my go to guy for cloth questions and officer research and as always appreciate his help and knowledge its unsurpassed on cloth he is the total package I now do have a researcher looking at the NARA for Von Kries file and keeping my fingers crossed its there should know in a few weeks. This uniform slipped through my fingers once but came back around to me a month later and was able to pick it up from a fellow Texan who bought it in a grouping of stuff. Correct me if I am wrong but the Johanniter order on this rock is not a military award but just shows his membership in the order ?

I think there will be a service file in NARA unless he was killed or retired before the War ended.

[NickG]

It is more than a birthright, it is a Order of knighthood etc. not limited to nobility more related to being awarded for helping hospitals acting honorably to help others etc. etc. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_...of_Brandenburg)

Yeah it depends on the branch,and when admittance took place.... Germany is no longer a Kingdom (or rather collection of Kingdoms), so less aristocracy, none added...
some other Kingdoms reserve right to admittance to this evangelical order to strictly nobility, like the Dutch do...(basically it does become a birth right).
Here's a Dutch Baron with both levels of this award... (source: Onderscheidingen Forum).
Even the admittance to nobility depends, The Brits still issue knighthoods and titles so their aristocracy not only grows through birth but new ones are "created", added...
other Kingdoms (like the Netherlands) put a stop to that...Their "pool" of aristocrats only continues through the male line by birth...and since births are declining....less!

And in Germany a "Von" ... is always a cut above a Muller or Schneider...= .Edelman!
(Unlike the Dutch "Van"...a dime a dozen...)

[WW2-Collector]

Here is the man behind the waffenrock. I was fortunate the researcher found 58 documents and two pictures. The file documents the waffenrock to a tee ! to include a document authorizing him to wear the A6 shoulder board designation !

[Johnny R]

Nice, so as I suspected he was an E officer authorized to wear the "tradition" uniform tied to his last unit as an active officer or the unit he served with the longest.

[WW2-Collector]

Johnny just as you suspected Here is the two pictures as well as the document authorizing him to wear the A6