White Heer Summer Signal Colonel Tunic

[afrikasandman]

Gents,

Since everyone is trying to jump on the piss all over it wagon, the tunic is mine and I just sold it. I have owned quite a few of these tunics over the years and it's not uncommon to see these not follow the regs. They were made in all sorts of materials and some made with provisions for slip on boards, some have collar tabs sewn on and what not.

The tunic and the rest of it is without a doubt original, no problem on my end with the boards being sewn in and not being t boards. The condition of the boards matches that of the tunic and it's clear to me that they have been there for some time.

Price wise, we can debate that all day. I have seen prices on these all over the place, I don't think it was priced it too high. Everyone has gotten used to WAF prices on the estand. That means everyone here feels they should be able to buy stuff for pennies on the dollar, that only exists on this forum. The reality is that stuff is still selling just not on here, this place is dying because people are always pissing on good items and no one wants to hardly post anymore.

That said, I have been doing this for a while and in hand there are no doubts.

[afrikasandman]

Also, I bought an artillery LT white summer tunic from Tim a few years ago and paid 700 for that and I don't see it being too high. But that's in the eye of the beholder.

[NickG]

I agree with the other opinions.
White summer tunics utilize shoulder boards with "T" configuration;
the board is passed through a slot in the shoulder seam and affixed to
a removable button. The "T" base holds the board in place.
The board itself is "bright silver" (dress) rather than "subdued" used
on field tunics.

Great tunic and my favorite type with the waffle pattern cloth. One of these is on my wish list. Signals might not be the sexiest branch but its nice!
Anything is possible, T-boards, slip on, shiny and subdued boards, what ever was available or personal preference... even sew-in types as shown, but those obviously do make washing more difficult...
Lt Otto Carius had a bullion breast eagle on his tunic even...now that would have needed frequent washing....and subdued slip on Pz boards,
which illustrates anything is possible!
The regs were not always followed!

The 2nd image is such a uniform in W-SS service ( SS-Obersturmführer Gerhard Bremer) with similar HEER pattern sew-in boards and even lacking an SS sleeve eagle...(again regs not always followed...unless he originally wore a swastika armband on this uniform...early Algemeine SS style)
Nice uniform

[DonC]

I am not pissing on the tunic, nor the boards. I am pissing on the fact that a high ranking tunic has not a single award loop and has subdued boards that are sewn down. It is not textbook, period. Yes, variations existed, but I don't think that is a thousand dollar tunic. The estimates of $600 to $700 are probably about right - the value of the original tunic, original eagle, and original boards. And I think Carius' boards are the correct parade ones, but it's impossible to tell from a B&W photo. Bremer - his boards look like they have a black underlay. Here's a tiny one of mine piped in early Signals brown - even this guy had a couple of loops.



Don

[Johnny R]

I have three or four white tunics similar to yours, actually in better condition I will be happy to sell you with an eagle but not with boards for $600.00 USD each with free shipping. Just PM me.

[Johnny R]

I am not really worried about the boards and have seen matte braid sets made into "T" boards from sew ins, later tunics also will just use loops to attached boards with tongues. After the War started I think the dress insignia was sparse, especially late in the war.

[afrikasandman]

Don,

I don't wear all of my awards except when I have to get photos taken and what not. Hell I don't even wear my sew on badges on every uniform so its not an essential must that they all have award loops. Contrary to popular belief, not every German Soldier was Rambo. Plus he was a Signal Colonel....

There is nothing wrong with this and a lack of award loops is hardly any reason to get all pissy. The price for the tunic was $700, not 1000. Matt

[DonC]

Matt, I wasn't getting pissy. I pointed out what was not textbook about the tunic and was accused of "jumping on the pissing all over it" bandwagon. In the end, as has been said so many times on this forum, if the owner is happy with it that is all that matters. $700 for the sum of the parts is probably at the high end of value in the market today, but they are always worth what somebody is willing to pay.

PS - I will trump John and sell the signals tunic above for $600 without awards but with the boards and eagle...

Don

[Hans Kristian]

I don't think the boards originally came with the tunic - they are the subdued variety (at least on my monitor) and for a full bird colonel to have not a single award loop or a set for a ribbon bar is a little odd, even for a signals guy. The base tunic looks fine to me.

Don

Most certainly agree on this..

[münster]

Matt, I wasn't getting pissy. I pointed out what was not textbook about the tunic and was accused of "jumping on the pissing all over it" bandwagon. In the end, as has been said so many times on this forum, if the owner is happy with it that is all that matters. $700 for the sum of the parts is probably at the high end of value in the market today, but they are always worth what somebody is willing to pay.

PS - I will trump John and sell the signals tunic above for $600 without awards but with the boards and eagle...

Don

Send it to south florida, eks get 500 and summer tunix can get 1500 to 2k lol.You might have bad luck with it though because it is original, the buyers are so used to fantasy items and fakes they would probably poo poo on all tunics on the tgread. I have seen it with my own 2 eyes in militaria shops all over florida.

[münster]

On a good double ended spear note they will sell you originals for cheap because they know their stuff and claim its fake. I call it LSD land.

[JasonA]

The challenge with saying that something is non-textbook is that shadows are often cast on an otherwise good piece. This is no fault of Don's or anybody else, as observing whether something is textbook construction or not is a legitimate observation! The downsides of this observation, however, are simply the state of the union. Unfortunately, too many here don't do the research for themselves and establish their own level of comfort on what they collect. The result is that many can be too impressionable and good pieces can be tainted too easily. They see the points of how a piece should be according to regulations compared to a piece that is not and the line is drawn. I agree that this is a significant contributor to the lack of posts and one of the banes of this hobby.

But again, no fault of anybody save the collectors who are not treating the hobby as seriously as they should. It's just important to recognize that there are repercussions to the hobby because of it.

On the topic of Heer summer tunics, I see plenty around. I don't think they are highly sought after by most, hence the typical price tag. But I also think that the market prices reflect the relative ease by which a period summer tunic can be created post-war. Which means that the fewer removable pieces there are on any given piece, the easier it is to vet. An interesting inverse relationship when looking at textbook vs. non-textbook summer tunics.

Ribbon bar loops are a tricky topic. Too few and there are doubts, too many and there are doubts. I know that most would like to own well decorated uniforms for a number of reasons, but to echo previous statements here, most vets weren't bedecked with medals across their chests. Of those that were highly decorated, not all of them wore everything at all times or even outside of their award date. Many wore different things on different uniforms for various occasions. This is proven time and again through surviving ribbon bar groups, period photos, etc.

Interesting discussion for sure.

J-

[afrikasandman]

Matt, I wasn't getting pissy. I pointed out what was not textbook about the tunic and was accused of "jumping on the pissing all over it" bandwagon. In the end, as has been said so many times on this forum, if the owner is happy with it that is all that matters. $700 for the sum of the parts is probably at the high end of value in the market today, but they are always worth what somebody is willing to pay.

PS - I will trump John and sell the signals tunic above for $600 without awards but with the boards and eagle...

Don

Don,

my apologies then, just seems like people are really quick to piss on something on this forum. I have learned that with these tunics, the regs rarely ever applied and they come in all shapes, styles, materials and what not. I have one upstairs made from a white canvas material, its interesting.

Matt

[DonC]

No worries, Matt. I meant no offense to you or the OP.

Don

[Johnny R]

I was serious, not sure where these sell for piles of money or ever did. I have collected since the 1970s and rarely meet anyone that was very interested in them. They are nice but certainly not something a lot of people are focused on collecting.