Heer Tropical cockade for review

[pbatalas]

I have already black light it and have done the burn test on this cockade but i want to be 100% it is good, any input would be much appreciated !

[pbatalas]

1.

[billbert]

My Guess is ORG TODT generals visor cap....Billbert

[NickG]

or intended for some kind of exotic General grade tropical visor?
The wreath does not extend high enough for it to be KM tropical...
Interesting piece!

[pbatalas]

I know its not KM because it is to short like you stated Nick, so i am guessing it is heer and it might be tropical, do you really think it is a generals cockade ? I have never seen one sold like this ever before either

[Tim O'Keefe]

My Guess is ORG TODT generals visor cap....Billbert

Agree+1 don't really think its for a "tropical Herr visor" if there is any such thing.....

[pbatalas]

their where tropical general visors so it could be from one of those or it could be from the todt organization, the architecture organization correct ?

[SgtB]

their where tropical general visors . . .

WWII German? You wouldn't happen to have a picture of one would you? I'd like to see that!

[pbatalas]

Here is a comment one of collector friends told me what it might be as he has come across items like these.

"It looks like a salesman piece, I came across one a few years back, also included was an example of the wreath and cockade used on Hitler's war time visor, I took them to be fantasy at the time, but have since learned they existed...kicking myself ain't the word, as the seller only wanted €100 for 3 examples..."

"An example of a design the manufacturer made, I.E. "look we were commissioned to make this, its an example of our work" The fact that there are no known pictures reinforces the point... I have seen a few examples of these (problem is nobody believes they are real). Its a bit like news papers running two headlines just before an election result, one is going to be right...Manufacturers made examples of items they though might be needed, once victory was won..."

I am trying to dig up period photos for everyone to see but it is not easy, i am taking everyone's opinion in consideration as i have never had a piece puzzle me so much.

[jmcm]

I don't like how close the tan is cut to the bullion.

[Rick C]

That could've happened when it was cut from a cap (that we've yet to see an example of). RC

[pbatalas]

I am leaning more to this is a sellers piece. I have had more feedback on other pages telling me about the same thing. I have heard that they made some uniforms for examples but they where never issued or bought because of the loss in Afrika but during the time they thought that they where going to win. Mhmmm this piece is really interesting....

[rbno]

Oddball wreath

I'm fascinated by this unusual piece. I do think it is of pre 1945 origin. It looks to be cut down a bit because it raveled or was damaged. But regardless of what organization it is from, why is it on this velvet like material instead of wool?

Here are my thoughts on what I consider the most likely suspects:

OT very high ranking officer visor cap wreath is a possibility, but I thought they used a darker cap band. From the few OT pictures I've seen, most OT officers seem to have worn M43 type caps.

Coastal Artillery personnel wore both the tall KM wreath as well as an army pattern wreath which was identical to an army general's wreath. KM also had a cotton tropical visor with a tropical brown (khaki) band. It could be for a private purchase CA tropical visor.

General officers had a huge amount of leeway in their uniform design. I don't think I'd completely rule out a one of a kind tropical army general's cap wreath. I think I have read somewhere that Erwin Rommel had visor cap where tan or brown wool was substituted for field gray wool. Or did I dream that?

Alen

[billbert]

IF this were Heer General custom piece I would expect the outer most cockade
ring to be gold..Still think most likely OT General visor..maybe even non German manufacture since the OT built the coastal fortification and sub pens of FESTUNG EUROPA......Billbert

[Tim O'Keefe]

I'm fascinated by this unusual piece.

General officers had a huge amount of leeway in their uniform design. I don't think I'd completely rule out a one of a kind tropical army general's cap wreath. I think I have read somewhere that Erwin Rommel had visor cap where tan or brown wool was substituted for field gray wool. Or did I dream that?

Alen

You were dreamin.

Rommel wore a European general's Schirmmutze & later an older Euro style Officers peaked cap. Also sometimes he wore a tropenhelm while in Afrika.